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Avengers: Infinity War (Spoilers)

 
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject: Avengers: Infinity War (Spoilers) Reply with quote

I may need to see the film a second time before I start getting into my thoughts, but for those who have seen it, here's your thread.

I will say this, though: Of course certain characters who bit it will be back, because they've already hinted at sequels for some recent MCU films.

But I suspect there's at least two characters who died in Infinity War who are gone for good. Two who are still alive will have their contractual obligations done after Avengers 4 next year (Chris Evans and Chris Hemsworth) but who knows what happens to their characters then.
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going to first, it got a very strange reaction from the crowd. They were marvel fan types, & when the film ended...with the bag guy winning & beating everyone to death...and killing haft the people in the Universe....first they seemed like they were going to cheer...then stopped after a few seconds...finish watching the credits....and calmly walk out of the theater without saying a word. Outside you didn't see croups of people talking after. You could read what they were thinking.

With Dr Strange around I think they will turn the bad guy in the next one. Then they will go back in time, and stop everything that happened in the 1st. Change time. It's a version of the dream gimmick of the old DC comics. A screw finish used when you screwed up a plot line.

They have already filmed the next movie. It's in the can. Going in, I didn't know was a two part movie.

I think it's a huge mistake killing off superheros. Otherwise you going to need a reboot...because the next guys in line will want to make money too. You kill characters & then you got to find some screwy way to bring them back. DC killed off the successful Batman, and the one they brought back sucks. Don't mess with what's working. They have the greatest list of actors in these movies, they'll not find replacements & they'll kill what they have.

Hulk getting his ass kicked like he was nothing....and then becomes a wimp...that is afraid of coming back...destroys him as a character. He is just a bully who gets beat & can't stand up when he is a underdog or against someone stronger. That's not a hero. And Bruce was then used as comic relief.

I enjoyed the interplay between all the characters & they did give all of them something to do.

So Dr Strange just gave up thye stone he vowed to protect. He has something going on there that will a major thing in the next film. Otherwise he sucks. You know there not going to leave it as is.

I also need to see it again. Being a old fuck, it moves too fast...with quick cuts & hand held shots. I hate those types of shots used with action. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up with computers and gaming. I can't tell who is fight who half the time. It bugs the shit out of me. I'll go see it in a better theater.

The movie also didn't have any intro.....it just jumps in at the end of a battle...and never stops for 21/2 hours. I don't know if it's good or bad, but I guess they needed to get all their shit in...so they didn't waist any time explain anything.

In the comics, there always was a problem in the groups (Avengers, Justice Leaque, & even the FF) in finding ways for getting the lesser heros something to do. A lot of them don't have super powers. So they are fighting these god like bad guys, and the non-powered hero are killing ass like the guys with world bending superpowers. They got passed that by giving three of them Iron Man suits. They seemed to give up on Antman & Hawkeye.

By feelings are they went for too much, it come off as just another CG mess. My favorite Avenger moment was them just sitting around eating, and saying nothing, at the end of #1.---Steve Yohe
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few thoughts after watching the film for the first time:

* The film is more about Thanos than it is any of the heroes. I know a common complaint among some comic book fans is that too many of the villains are finished off in the span of a film and not allowed to be a bigger threat. Now they have one that's a threat, to the point that when you think Thor that has defeated Thanos, it turned out Thanos had one play left.

* I agree with Steve that Doctor Strange is going to play a bigger role in the next Avengers film and that he knows something bigger is in play. Of course, given that Strange was one of the heroes killed off, it will be interesting to see how he comes back.

As a brief aside, Marvel did an Infinity Gambit storyline in which Thanos succeeded in wiping out half the universe, but his damage was undone. So you know that will happen in the next Avengers film -- but the question is if Strange is revived before the rest of the damage is undone.

* I agree with Steve that the interplay between the heroes was great. Stuff like that keeps the film from being too dark and gave you a breather in between all the action scenes -- and there were a lot of them.

* Some of the stuff that happened in this film should get resolved in the next one. Hulk's unwillingness to come out, Tony Stark figuring out how to get back to Earth, Nebula's ultimate role (in the comics, she was the one who wanted to get the glove from Thanos -- don't know if that's what she'll do in the MCU, given that it doesn't stay true to everything in the comics), how the heroes remaining come together.

* We know we'll see Ant Man and Wasp in the next film, plus I'm sure they'll bring in Hawkeye. And they teased that Captain Marvel will show up -- I figure she'll play a huge role in the next film.

* As for those who died before the Infinity Gambit happened, Gamora is the only one I think has a chance of coming back. Given how closely she's tied with Thanos, you have to wonder if he'll start feeling guilt and try to bring her back.

Loki and the Asgardians, though -- they're gone for good. I don't think Marvel is planning any more Thor-specific films. If Thor shows up, it's likely in films that focus on other heroes, and it all depends on whether or not Chris Hemsworth wants to return. But with no Thor-specific films planned, there's no reason to keep bringing back Asgard.

I'll have to watch it again, but yeah, this was a film that didn't wrap up neatly like some of the other films have. The Russos left things open ended here, just as they did with Civil War and, to some extent, with Winter Soldier.
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to see it again...because I can't remember who lived or died. They started knocking them off & I would have to think how that affects things...and by then they killed a couple more. I just hope Sam Jackson stays dead.

So Thanos is really an environmentalist type person who is real a good guy because he is really saving the universe by thinning the population. What's wrong with that?

How long before the next Avengers? I wouldn't leave this one sitting around too long by itself. Wait until it's time for the DVD & then release the next one that is already filmed.---Yohe
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The next Avengers film will be released in May 2019.

Before that, we get the Ant Man/Wasp film this summer, then Captain Marvel's origin film comes out in February 2019 -- and that's one being set back in the 1990s, so the events take place before most of what's happened in the MCU.
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This IO9 post explains how Thanos' motivations in the Infinity War film have some similarities to what happened in the comics, prior to the Infinity Gauntlet series.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/thanos-motivations-in-avengers-infinity-war-have-much-1825660879
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jdw
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Morris wrote:
A few thoughts after watching the film for the first time:

* The film is more about Thanos than it is any of the heroes. I know a common complaint among some comic book fans is that too many of the villains are finished off in the span of a film and not allowed to be a bigger threat. Now they have one that's a threat, to the point that when you think Thor that has defeated Thanos, it turned out Thanos had one play left.


He's far and away the best heel the MCU has coughed up. Keaton and Redford were the prior best, but Thanos actually "wins" at the end of a movie. They creative motivation, reason and logic behind what he was doing, and had him willing to lose everything to accomplish it. Horrible villain, but not a cardboard one.



Quote:
* I agree with Steve that Doctor Strange is going to play a bigger role in the next Avengers film and that he knows something bigger is in play. Of course, given that Strange was one of the heroes killed off, it will be interesting to see how he comes back.


Strange saw the only future where they would win. Which led him to giving the Time Stone, letting Thanos "win", and being willing to "die" to save Tony.

Of course Strange is coming back.


Quote:
As a brief aside, Marvel did an Infinity Gambit storyline in which Thanos succeeded in wiping out half the universe, but his damage was undone. So you know that will happen in the next Avengers film -- but the question is if Strange is revived before the rest of the damage is undone.


I don't think it's terrible complicted:

Turned To Dust = Coming Back
Died In Other Ways = Dead
Survived With No Sequel = At Risk of Dying
Survived With Sequel = Ain't Dying

There are extremely few people in the last one. Rocket... and Natasha... and... it gets thing after that.

Nebula *may* have a role in GotG3. But that's not a lock.


Quote:
* I agree with Steve that the interplay between the heroes was great. Stuff like that keeps the film from being too dark and gave you a breather in between all the action scenes -- and there were a lot of them.


Some was very good. The Rocket & Thor stuff was good. Quill with Thor was decent, and needed after the Asgardians were slaughtered. But...

The Quill-Tony stuff was weak. It's fitting with Quill's personality, but just felt flat after Quill has better stuff with Thor and Tony had *much* better stuff with Strange.

Quote:
* Some of the stuff that happened in this film should get resolved in the next one. Hulk's unwillingness to come out, Tony Stark figuring out how to get back to Earth, Nebula's ultimate role (in the comics, she was the one who wanted to get the glove from Thanos -- don't know if that's what she'll do in the MCU, given that it doesn't stay true to everything in the comics), how the heroes remaining come together.


Hulk obviously will come back. I liked the "no" aspect a ton. Having Thanos kick the living shit out of Thor and Hulk coming off of Thor 3 totally put Thanos over as the baddest ass in the galaxy, which is what everyone was claiming he was. Simply killing Loki wasn't enough.

My guess is that Strange has set up Tony to get back to the other Avengers. Doesn't mean Tony won't have to puzzle things out, but Stange will have a role in it.

Nebula was left alive by the writers, right there next to Tony, so she's going to have a role.


Quote:
* We know we'll see Ant Man and Wasp in the next film, plus I'm sure they'll bring in Hawkeye. And they teased that Captain Marvel will show up -- I figure she'll play a huge role in the next film.


Hawkeye will be in A4, and likely will pop up in either Ant-Man or Captain Marvel, possible in a post credit scene. He and Ant-Man specifically weren't in this, but were referenced... so there's a chance they will link.

Quote:
* As for those who died before the Infinity Gambit happened, Gamora is the only one I think has a chance of coming back. Given how closely she's tied with Thanos, you have to wonder if he'll start feeling guilt and try to bring her back.


I think she is deader than dead. We might get some cameo where she left something for Peter, or is some kind of vision. But her death was the key moment of the whole movie. They're going to be rolling back the Dust Deaths, and you just can't roll back hers.

Quote:
Loki and the Asgardians, though -- they're gone for good. I don't think Marvel is planning any more Thor-specific films. If Thor shows up, it's likely in films that focus on other heroes, and it all depends on whether or not Chris Hemsworth wants to return. But with no Thor-specific films planned, there's no reason to keep bringing back Asgard.


I don't think the Asgardians are completely dead. Valkyrie wasn't among those dead, and Tessa Thompson is suppose to be in more movies.

Of the survivors...

My guess is that we will have at least one more big death moment in Avengers 4. Everyone's guess is either Tony or Steve, or both.

Zero chance Banner or Widow will die, as they want to do a Widow movie and Hulk/Banner is a perfect co-star in it since they can't do a stand-alone Hulk movie but love to be able to use him like in Thor 3.

Possible that Thor will bite the farm. But Hemsworth is just 35 later this year, so there's the ability to use him in the next Phase even if they don't do a stand alone Thor.

Nebula is too easy to kill off, they need to fill in GotG3 and she's just 30.

Rhodes feels a bit too easy to kill off. Age is right to go, but they could have killed him off in either this or Civil War for more impact.
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be clear on my Doctor Strange comment, it's not a question of IF he comes back, but a question of WHEN he comes back.

As in, does he somehow manage to survive the Infinity Gambit somewhere, thanks to those mystic powers, to aid everyone in undoing every other death, or is it going to up only to those who survived to figure out how to undo everything.

Knowing how the world of Doctor Strange operates, it's possible there's some version of him out there who can offer clues as to how to undo Thanos' gambit.

Or perhaps he doesn't have a role and that falls more on the shoulders of Captain Marvel, who is set to appear in the next Avengers film.

As for which major character dies -- Chris Evans has said he may be done with the MCU and Chris Hemsworth has fulfilled his obligations, so their characters may be the ones who die.

I could see Tony Stark surviving if Robert Downey is fine with having lesser roles in future films.

But I suspect, after Phase 3 is finished, Marvel will want to focus on other characters. We already know that Spidey and the Guardians are getting another film, a Black Widow film is planned, that Black Panther is guaranteed another film given the interest in that character, and it appears likely Doctor Strange gets another film. And it's not difficult to figure out that Marvel will want Captain Marvel to play a larger role in Phase 4.
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What non-marvel film has Chris Evans done that has made money? Maybe none. I really like him & I think he is a star....but outside of Captain America he is unproven. History had shown that leaving any big franchise is a terrible idea. Nothing is better for a career that having a role you can fall back on when times get bad. I think Evans is looking for a raise from Marvel & they are so cheap this is the only way. What else is he going to do...play Johnny Storm again? He'd either have to score with some other SF or action film or really get lucky in a independent film.

Chris Hemsworth looks like a star & everyone seems to think the same thing...but he has made some big budget films that have failed. Thor is a sure bet.

I bet Downey was talking about leaving before he got his new deal. Once that happened he quit making other films.

Every major film star, from Rock & Tom Cruse down, has something or wants something they can fall back on. A sure thing, that studios can't replace him in. They don't want to end up on TV.

If they dump Cap, Thor, or Iron Man it would be a bad mistake.

Someone gave me a hard time, because I said the Red Skull was alive...and bingo here he is in the new Averger movie. I'm not as dumb as I look.--Steve Yohe
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jdw
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Downey is doing Doctor Dolittle right now. Sherlock Holmes 3 is in pre-production, and before that a movie on Dr. John Brinkley is in pre-production as well. He set everything aside to go into this non-stop run of Cap 3 + Spidey + Avengers 3 + Avengers 4.

I think Hemsworth is the most likely of the three to come back in some role at some point. He's at the age where he can take 4 years off of the MCU and still come back to it.

Steve or Tony is likely to bite the farm in Avengers 4. Possibly both.

Of course it's comic books, which have a history of coming up with reasons to bring people back from the dead. You probably know that better than any of us - they're worse than Soap Operas and Wrestling in re-writing history and bringing people back from the dead (or loser leave town matches). So while they may die, it's always possible that they may come back.

But...

It's likely that one or both of them thinks they're done with it and are ready to move on.
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Evans has said he would like to look into directing or other behind-the-scenes stuff with making films. There are a lot of technical and production aspects that he could look into if he's thinking about being a director down the line.

He's also getting older and may be ready to move on from doing the physical work involved with playing a superhero.
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. It's BS. A few bombs & they all will change their minds.--Yohe
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actors want to direct until they find out it takes three years out of their lives & it's a hell of a lot of work. And if your thinking about doing a serious film...that means a art film...and very little money. In the 70's & 80's every actor wanted to direct...until some of them did it....and just about all of them went back to acting. And very few talk about it any more. It's not a lot of fun. Rigley Scott has it all worked out and the same team of people working with him. And he works faster than anyone. Very few jobs are like that.----Yohe
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe Russo was at a high school to answer questions about Infinity War, some which expand on theories that might be abound regarding what will happen in the next Avengers film.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/joe-russo-gave-the-infinity-war-answers-youve-been-wait-1825776831
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my review from May 9. Thought I should post it here...because I said I was wrong...I will never do that again:

Saw AVENGERS 3 in 2D Imax tonight & I was wrong....it's a good movie...you couldn't make that movie better. My first theater had bad projection & it looked dark. Drove me nuts. Filming of the action & the pacing was fine. Acting was super & everyone....100's of them...all got their stuff in. Funny & dramatic. I give it ***3/8 because it's a two part movie ...and I don't know how they can make another one...without creating another major bad guy. The one they got how is a more of a hero type....he is just misunderstood...SOMEONE HAD TO DO IT!!!.---Steve Yohe
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