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NBA Top 50 Players of All-Time
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jdw
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Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 16531

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How close is KD to breaking into that Top 20? :)
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1088

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
How close is KD to breaking into that Top 20? :)

Really, really close. On my list he is practically interchangeable with Karl Malone and will bump him next year.

Most of the members in my top 20 (and the top 20 of the others) have at least one league MVP and have been the best player on a championship team. West was never league MVP, but he led his teams to the title game 9 times and I have no problem putting him in the top 10. Btw, who do you think was the best player on the Dubs last year? I thought KD clearly deserved the finals MVP, but that Steph was slightly more valuable during the regular season.

glenn
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jdw
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So looking at this and what's left to play for in the CF and Finals:

jdw wrote:
JDW's updated through the end of 2016/17

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. LeBron James
5. Tim Duncan
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Jerry West


Lebron has been insane and if he wins it all, you kind of think of moving him up. But...

Kareem's career is missing 2-4 years because he went to UCLA rather than straight-to-the-NBA like Kobe/KG/Bron or two-and-done like Magic/Zeke. Jabbar was the best player in the NBA the moment he stepped foot in it. He averaged 34-18-5 in the ECF against the World Champion Knicks that year, including an insane 38-23-11 in Game 2 and a just-as-insane 33-31-5 in Game 3. You kind of think he would have been pretty good if he entered two years earlier, especially if joining the Pistons (rather than Jimmy Walker) to pair with Two Daves: terrific all-arounder Dave DeBusschere and Dave Bing coming off a rookie season he averaged 20-5-4. A wee bit more talent to work with than the Bucks. :)

Anyway, I'm fine letting Bron play out his career and chase the Top 3. All of those guys above him have full sublime careers to top. It's okay to wait and watch how it turns out.

On the other hand...

If Bron beats a full strenghted healthy Warriors in the Final, then yes... the hell with waiting, we can move him up to #1. That's not likely to happen.




Quote:
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
13. Shaquille O'Neal
14. Moses Malone
15. Elgin Baylor
16. John Havlicek
17. Dirk Nowitzki
18. Kevin Durrant
19. Julius Erving
20. Isiah Thomas


If KD wins this year and plays in the same range as last year, I'd move him above Dirk... probably Hondo though it's okay to wait on that one. Dirk's win with Dallas remains more impressive than anything KD is likely to do, and more than most of the guys *ahead* of him. But it is just one thing, and we're judging folks on more than one thing. Still, those Mavs beating Bron+Wade+Bosh is a nutty thing.

Quote:
21. Kevin Garnett
22. Walt Frazier
23. Rick Barry
24. Steph Curry
25. Karl Malone
26. Charles Barkley
27. Dwyane Wade
28. Sam Jones
29. Scottie Pippen
30. Dave Cowens


If the Dubs win and Curry is reasonably healthy playing well through Houston and the Final, I think he moves in that range of Zeke.

Quote:
31. Kevin McHale
32. David Robinson
33. Dennis Rodman
34. John Stockton
35. Willis Reed
36. Gary Payton
37. Steve Nash
38. Billy Cunningham
39. Bob Pettit
40. Bob Cousy

41. George Mikan
42. Chris Paul
43. Paul Pierce
44. Dennis Johnson
45. Ray Allen
46. Bob McAdoo
47. David Thompson
48. Hal Greer
49. Bob Dandridge
50. Bill Walton


If Houston wins, going through the Dubs and Lebron, then CP3 and Harden move rapidly up the list.

We tend to underrate Harden because he's so annoy and often so awful on defense. But he's been the #1 player on a team that has gone 54-28, 56-26, 55-27 & 65-17 over 4 of the last 5 season, with Dwight Howard being part of screwing up the one down season in the middle of that. Before that, he averaged 26-5-6 on a team that improved by 11 games and made the playoffs with him as the #1 player on the team. Before that, he averaged 17-4-4 as the 6th Man of the Year on a team that went to the NBA Finals before losing to Bron+Wade+Bosh. He's been runner up for the MVP twice, and is going to win it this year. He's done all that, and is only 28 this year. He's had a heck of a career already. About the only thing someone like McAdoo has on him is the MVP (which is moot after this season) and being the 6th Man on an NBA Title.

He annoys the hell out of me. But four 50+ win seasons in the West, only getting another high end teammate on those teams this season (and jumping up to 65)... that's carrying the heck out of a team.
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1088

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
If Bron beats a full strenghted healthy Warriors in the Final, then yes... the hell with waiting, we can move him up to #1. That's not likely to happen.

I have LeBron third, and I agree that a championship this year would put him on track for #1. Maybe not instantly #1, but he would get there with a couple more typical LeBron seasons.

I agree with your points about Harden. With his presumed MVP this year, he will have 1 MVP and 2 runners-up in the last 4 seasons. He has been the best player on some darn good teams. Yes, he is annoying to watch and tough to root for, but he is an offensive savant.

By the way, for a fresh take on a Top-40 list, check out Ben Taylor at his "Backpicks" site. The criteria for his ranking is "the players who have provided the largest increase in the odds of a team winning championships over the course of their careers." It's a very well-considered list, with lots of supporting data and video.

The Backpicks GOAT: The 40 Best Careers in NBA History

This is a good read, too.

Backpicks GOAT: the value of longevity and defense

glenn
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jdw
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Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 16531

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't let Yohe see where they ranked Elgin. ;)
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JAG



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 2089

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any list that has Garnett ahead of Magic Johnson is not for me.

Jagdip
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