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2017/2018 NBA Thread
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jdw
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many titles do Jabbar and Magic have is West got his way in the 1979 draft?

Or if the Jazz weren't stupid in wanting to sign a fading Goodrich?

Or if there was a Ted Stepien Rule before Ted Stepien gift us Worthy for Don Ford?

Most of the titles in NBA history are made on some degree of luck. So are a lot of Hall of Fame careers. Worthy isn't in the Hall if he didn't land on the Lakers.
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea of a big man (center) being the secret of success by NWA GMs created a lot of luck. Look at the non-drafting of Jordan by Portland. In those days, you could trade for a good small star by offering a run of the mill big center. A mistake made over & over again after getting their heads kicked in by Mikan, Russell, Wilt, & Jabbar over the years.---Yohe
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corrado



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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so without 4 key players, the young Celtics nonetheless dominated the Cavs in Game 1. Its going to be a long series for Lebron.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
The idea of a big man (center) being the secret of success by NWA GMs created a lot of luck. Look at the non-drafting of Jordan by Portland. In those days, you could trade for a good small star by offering a run of the mill big center. A mistake made over & over again after getting their heads kicked in by Mikan, Russell, Wilt, & Jabbar over the years.---Yohe


I don't disagree.

On the other hand, none of my examples were about Centers.

West wanted to draft Sidney Moncrief, a guard. He was overruled by Cooke to take Magic, a guard.

Goodrich was a guard signed by the Jazz, which cost them the draft pick that became Magic, a guard.

Don Ford was a forward, as was Worthy.

As far as most titles, we can start with the luck around Bill Russell. Rochester drafted Si Green #1 overall, which is kind of insane given Russell was coming off back-to-back national titles. Luck based on a dumb ass decision. Then more luck that the Hawks, drafting #2, already has Pettit+Share as big men, so were willing to draft & trade Russell to the Celtics. Setting aside that the Hawks were more than a bit racist so that wouldn't have been a good fit for Russell. 11 titles that were pretty much pure luck in Rochester taking a guard over Russell, and the Hawks being #2 and not needing a center.

I'd agree that there were a LOT of either pure luck center titles (MIL winning the coin flip for Jabbar, Portland winning the flip for Walton when the #2 pick was Marvin Freaking Barnes) and dumbass luck center titles (the Knicks fleecing the Pistons out of Dave DeBusschere with a declining overrated Walt Bellamy letting Reed play Center, Portland taking Bowie rather than Jordan / the Rockets not willing to trade Sampson to Portland for the #2 + lots of other goodies, some dumbass being willing to trade Kobe's pick for Vlade). It's even possible that Portland would have won a title if they took Kevin Durrant rather than Ogden.

So totally agree - loads of bad luck / good luck revolving around centers.

But there also is a lot around non-centers as well. Mo Cheeks has a ring. Tony Parker has four rings. Neither of those guys was as good as CP3. I get Parker being a Hall of Famer, but honestly have no fucking clue how Mo Cheeks is in the HOF. Mo made it before Moncrief, and no one in the 80s thought Mo was better than Moncrief. It's just that one of those guys was lucky enough to play with Doc and get to two NBA Finals to job to the Lakers, then was even luckier to have Moses come along and finally carry all of their asses to an NBA Title.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

corrado wrote:
so without 4 key players, the young Celtics nonetheless dominated the Cavs in Game 1. Its going to be a long series for Lebron.


Pretty amazing game to watch. Still, CLE only needs to win one game in Boston and the home court flips to them. CLE is the same flawed team they were in the regular season and the first round before Toronto made us forget about it. They also are still the team that rolled Toronto, and Lebron is still Lebron. Even if they drop the first two, the series isn't over.
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
But there also is a lot around non-centers as well. Mo Cheeks has a ring. Tony Parker has four rings. Neither of those guys was as good as CP3. I get Parker being a Hall of Famer, but honestly have no fucking clue how Mo Cheeks is in the HOF. Mo made it before Moncrief, and no one in the 80s thought Mo was better than Moncrief. It's just that one of those guys was lucky enough to play with Doc and get to two NBA Finals to job to the Lakers, then was even luckier to have Moses come along and finally carry all of their asses to an NBA Title.

For a different type of luck, how about the case of Draymond Green? Green is well on his way to a Hall of Fame career. By the time he is done, he will have multiple titles, All-Star appearances, and All-NBA teams, plus the DPOTY award from last year. Green only became a starter due to an injury to David Lee in the final preseason game of the 2014-15 season. Sure, Green may have eventually forced his way into the starting lineup and the season may have turned out the same. Then again, Lee was the highest paid player on the team that year and still ostensibly in his prime. It took some luck for Green to become a starter. It's possible that Green wouldn't have been as successful as a reserve since he wouldn't have played alongside Steph, Klay, and Bogut as much. Fortunately for the Dubs, David Lee became their Wally Pip.
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corrado



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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Draymond was lucky he didn't get tossed tonight. He was jawing at the ref even after getting his first technical of the game.

Rockets were never the same after James Harden briefly left the game early on. They were cruising, but once he had to leave, the Warriors took advantage and controlled the rest of the game.
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JAG



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAG wrote:
Bad news: Celtics or LeBron going to the Finals.

Great news: Dubs are gonna destroy them once those Finals begin.

I see the Celtics giving LeBron more trouble than Rockets will give the Dubs.

Dubs in 5. LeBron in 6.

I think the Warriors have been listening to all the Houston talk all year ala the 01 Lakers and Spurs. The champs are better, but the other team cared more about getting No. 1 seed, so it has MVP and the rube hype. Curb stomping coming up.


*ahem*

:)

Jagdip
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GS has a lot better coaching than Houston. Too much one on one tonight.--Yohe
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corrado



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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its now 2-0 Boston. Very impressive win. Bron may have been concussed though. His stats went down once he had to leave the game.

I was surprised that JR Smith didn't get tossed for his clearly intentional foul on Horford. That was a bad decision there.

The Cavs can get some hometown cooking in the next two games, but it seems more and more that the Celtics are going to pull it off.
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guren



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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cavs have been established as 6 point favorites for Game 3. Vegas obviously thinks the betting public will expect a bounce-back by the LeBrons. In the WCF, the Rockets are a 1.5 point favorite in Game 2.
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corrado



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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Rockets found the best way to defeat the Champs. Go crazy from 3 point land. 16/40.They tie the series at 1.

Still a long way to go though. Its up to the Rockets to keep up scoring from outside in front of that Warrior crowd.
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corrado



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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Wolves barely made the postseason after a bit of high expectations. Now their franchise player may want out:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2776785-karl-anthony-towns-timberwolves-reportedly-not-in-a-good-place-internally

The dangers of a Thibs team. Who would pounce on getting him?
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corrado



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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cavs certainly woke up tonight. They needed a win like this. They didn't just win, they blew em out.
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corrado



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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

another blowout in this series. Steph Curry seems to have completely healed and scored 35 points. He's getting his swagger back.
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