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Vice: Dark Side of the Ring *SPOILERS*
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 759

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mysterious Death of Gorgeous Gino Hernandez was a better job of filling time and getting ot the heart of the matter, but still kinda fell flat. And even thought they did a better job with the information I thought they needed to go more into his childhood.

YouTube does have a small clip of Gino's mother explaining who his father was...and no, it's not Paul Boesch. You'll have to check it out for yourself.

I remember Gino and Chris Adams being exceptional when I watching them as a kid. I thought Gino had died at an earlier age than 29 years old and started to think that because he was still working World Class at 29 that he may not have been as good as I thought he was. However, I forget that back then...in particular with Vince...the top stars were usually in their mid-30's in WWF or NWA-Crockett.

Also, Gary Hart wrote in his book that he tried to get Gino to go to Crockett or even Vince, but Gino didn't want to as he liked being a big fish in a small pond and his drug habit was pretty out of control.

Cornette didn't see all that impressed with Gino and Adams because he said they would put them hands down on the mat to protect themselves when they bumped. But, Cornette has acknowledged that the World Class rings were some of the hardest rings the MX had ever worked on.

Cornette blamed booker Ken Mantell for not getting the MX to work with the Von Erich's, but it's also a testiment to just how good Adams and Gino were as a tag team. I remember years later, my best friend Rob and I were such big marks for Chris' work from World Class that we would call each other up and tape anytime Chris showed up on TV (at the time, we didn't know the various legal issues and how big of a scumbag Chris was).

I never bought into the mystery behind Gino's death. He was a bad coke addict. There was talk about how much coke he consumed, but it wasn't like Kurt Cobain's heroin death where the investigators claimed that Cobain shot himself up with 5 times the lethal dose, finished his suicide letter, closed the heroin kit and used a shotgun to blow his head off (that's another rant for another time).

Gino was dead on the floor. Marks like David Manning talked about his door not having the deadbolt locked....but that could have been a mistake by the police or just the fact that a cokehead in a coke binge may forget to lock their door. The same with the paranoia which would have made me thought even more that he died of a coke overdose.

The only puzzle was the coroner's report stating that Gino was uncircumsized when he wasn't. But sometimes the coroner makes a dumb mistake.

Anyway, not sure what the mystery was but I'm glad it got resolved for his mother's sake. That's probably the brightest spot of the entire episode.






YR
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Bob Morris



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Von Erich remarked on WWE's World Class DVD that Hernandez supposedly had cocaine in his stomach.

If that is true, it could point to Hernandez committing suicide by ingesting cocaine, while leaving the deadbolt unlocked to make people think it was foul play.

It wouldn't be the first time somebody killed themselves but tried to leave evidence to suggest a homicide rather than a suicide.
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 759

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Fabulous Moolah episode....I thought was pretty decent. Not great, but compelling. And I'm not sure why.

Perhaps it was that in previous episodes too much of the wrestlers working the documentary makers or too much hyperbole. Maybe it was the episode felt like they were glossing over important parts too much. Either way, I enjoyed the episode more than many of the others.

I had always heard that Moolah ran a really shitty deal with the girls and then all of the talk about prostitution and drugs went on. In essence, it's the wrestling business and where unethical stuff can happen it can turn into wild and horribly untrue rumors. Combine that with today's social media and it turns into a dumpster fire.

That's probably why Vince tried to memorialize her with a Battle Royal...in admiration of how she screwed over the wrestlers with shitty deals.

I tend to believe Bambi when she says that Moolah told her to act nice to the Dutch promoter and that was basically code word for advising Bambi to sleep with the promoter.

The thing that always puzzled me was the Wendi Richter doublecross. They go into here. Richter still claims she didn't know it was Moolah. I tend to not believe it, particularly as she went after Moolah's mask. My thinking is she was probably told she was going to be attacked by Spider Lady and then it was going to be revealed to be Moolah and she didn't know she was going to get doublecrossed.

But, this should go down as one of the biggest blunders of Vince's career. Richter was over H-U-G-E. Over bigger than any of the females today not named Rousey (and I think you could argue in terms of pro wrestling, she was over more than Rousey). Unless Richter's negotiations for more money were just flat out unfeasible, Vince really cut his nose off to spite his face on this one.

My guess is that they'll try to do another series as Dark Side of the Ring has done the highest ratings in the history of Vice TV. Unlike more established channels, Vice could always use the viewership so they don't have to worry about the discounted ad money that usually comes with pro wrestling type programs.

I'd like to see them extend the episodes to 90 minutes.

My picks for episodes would be:

Benoit double murder-suicide
Rikidozan murder
Buck Zumhofe
Herb Abrams
Abdullah the Butcher/Devon Nicholson case
The Graham family suicides






YR
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Steve Yohe



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Meltzer creates the Wrestling Observer bi-passing KF & changes wrestling journalism forever.

Why the Shiket/O'Mahoney double cross changed pro wrestling.

Explaining the Ed Lewis/ Deglane bite match.

Explain why wrestling has no history.

Yohe
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jdw
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Beniot first part is painful to watch. It's the Titanic... you know how it's going to end... you see a lot of the stuff and people you enjoyed... but the Ice Berg is coming, and it's horrible.

* * * * *

It does have some of the standard issues that any of these would have. They've got to compress a lifetime into an hour. Frankly two because they cover Eddy as well. People get put over stronger than they were. No one's story is really questioned or contradicted. Etc.

We know enough about Chris and Eddy that we can fill in our own blanks. When know when shine is shine, and when some bullshit is bullshit. For the most part it isn't a problem, but we know where it's bit loose.

* * * * *

That said, they do carve out the entire second episode to deal with the details of the murder and how things were handled. Perhaps that's good because it is the Titanic and how it hit the Berg, why it went down, the errors along the way are perhaps the bigger story here.

That will be painful as well, but perhaps more clinical to deal with as a viewer.

It's been 13 years and it's still a mind fuck.
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Yakuza Rich



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Posts: 759

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's kinda odd because while I wasn't interested in some of the episodes that have been beaten to death like the Montreal Screwjob in Season 1...I am very interested in Benoit murders-suicide.

The only thing I did not like about Season 1 is that they did not have Kevin Sullivan on to at least defend himself. But it is apparent he did not want to be on. He has nothing to really gain as he would be viewed as an abusive husband or an idiot that booked his own divorce.

It's tough to watch Chavo being interviewed. He's had it about as rough as anybody having Eddy die in his arms and then being the last person to speak to Chris. Benoit's son having to go thru life with what his father did and losing a father and a stepbrother in the process.

On a side note, I hope they get further into the investigation. The Wikipedia 'prank' just seems like too much of a bizarre coincidence. I don't suspect foul play, but I'm guessing somebody was tipped off as this would be the craziest coincidence of all time.

But in the end, it's just unthinkable what happened. Over the years we've heard workers point to Chris being more aggressive and unstable years before the murder. But, they are workers and they've never been afraid or working the truth. Hopefully, they will get into condition of Chris' brain at his death to help better understand why this went down like it did.




YR
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been watching these show. They need to realize that all wrestlers lie or twist there stories.

Cornett knew nothing about the Lewis/DeGlane bit match in Montreal.

I don't understand what was important about the Savage/Liz story.

The fanboy attempt to tell the Von Erich story made me sick to watch. Wish Dave wasn't in it....or they should have just gotten Dave to tell the story. Instead we got Kevin.

If they got Dave for one of the shows, they should have used him for all of them.

The big story about Hart, was that Vince created the big story for Bret going to WCW, & WCW screwed Hart.

It's just a cheap TV show crap on a cheap crappy channel. -- Yohe
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 759

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My issue with the first season was the episodes only went 1 hour and that caused them to edit out important pieces and they would not follow chronological order at times. Even for me, who knew the stories, I would have some difficulty at times following along. I couldn't imagine a person who didn't know the story or know wrestling following along.

The Brody episode was the best although after more thought...the idea that Brody was killed because he was buying his share of Puerto Rico just doesn't make sense. Still an interesting theory.

The Von Erich's episode was very scatterbrained. I know Meltzer points out to Brody's story about David Von Erich OD'ing on drugs. But that doesn't make sense either given the autopsy reports. Black Bart, who did not have good things to say about the Von Erichs, stated that David used to take some quaaludes and down it with whiskey after the matches and said that he was told that David took the quaaludes with sake and that caused the problem with his stomach.

I tend to think that is closer to the right path as to what happened. I respect Meltzer, but I cannot reconcile the autopsy showing ruptured bowel and gastrointestinal perforation and label it as an overdose. My guess is that Brody removed the evidence thinking that it was an overdose and didn't know it was due to basically his intestines exploding.

I agree on the Liz/Savage story. But the makers stated that they had to get stories about WWF because the channel would think nobody would be interested otherwise.

Then to highlight the Montreal Screwjob...for me I was bored with the Montreal Screwjob about 3 months after it happened. And I just hate when it is beat to death.

I'd believe Corny over Russo when it comes to who came up with the idea. Of course, I would not trust anything Russo ever says. He's a devout liar.

But I thought part 1 of this episode was the best episode I've seen, yet. Hopefully they close out part 2 well and show that they've become acclimated to the mistakes and issues they had in season 1.




YR
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jdw
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some doubts there actually is a full autopsy report on David. This:

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/1988/february/the-fall-of-the-house-of-von-erich

Quote:
The Penthouse reporter had asked a Von Erich business associate if drugs had killed David. Furious, Fritz showed me a copy of the death report from the U.S. Embassy in Japan, which clearly said David died from ďacute enteritis,Ē a severe intestinal infection.


I don't take "death report" to mean the same thing as an autopsy.

Dave was in Texas at the time. He was connected with both the Texas promotion, people who were tight with All Japan like the Funks, Brody himself, and a laundry list of other people far closer to the situation than anyone now is. He's covered other deaths in Japan where autopsies weren't done, the facts were hidden, and gotten decent info on what happened. This has a far wider circle of people who know the cover story was bullshit.

You know me - I've disagreed with Dave on a variety of things. I don't think he's wrong on this one.
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched part 2 and this was easily the best Ďstoryí of all of the stories that Vice has done. They kept the timeline in tact, they didnít focus too much on frivolous stuff and they kept their focus on important stuff. All of the guests were very poignant and did not embellish on the truth.

Matt Randazzo did a good job of filling in the blanks. The freeze framed the text messages from Nancy to Chris and got the impression that Chris was very depressed and had big-time mood swings. And frankly I donít think those texts from Nancy helped the situation.

The real disgusting part of the WWE was not the tribute they gave Chris the night after. They were in their own bubble and from friends of mine that were working for the company at the time, everybody thought they died from some sort of accidental gas poisoning. It was how the WWE did everything they could to defend against the idea that the murder-suicide was due to roid rage and then when Nowinski and company pointed to Benoit suffering from severe CTE, the WWE tried everything they could to discount that as well.

The facts are that it did appear that Chris suddenly snapped, but this had been building for a long time. Iím not sure I buy into Nowinskiís theory that steroidís played no role. But I will say that Justin Strzelczyk, who also suffered from CTE, had similar behavior to Benoit and finally ended his life by driving 90 mph on the wrong side of a highway before crashing into a gas tanker.

I did come away thinking that David Benoit, Sandra Toffoloni and Chavo Guerrero are pretty remarkable people in how they have handled everything they have gone thru. And Iím glad to see them having developed a relationship with one another.




YR
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just watched the latest episode on New Jack. This went more along the lines of the same issues they had with season 1. They jumped around with the timeline a bit, focused on things that were not that pertinent to the story (i.e. Mustafa smoking pencil shavings) and let too much bs slide into the story.

What hurt this episode the most is that they failed to interview any of New Jack's victims. And in typical New Jack fashion...make yourself the babyface by making bs claims of racism.

In the end, they asked 'is Jerome Young different from New Jack?' Yet, they failed to investigate the life of Jerome Young before he got into wrestling.

They also failed to mention why New Jack was so upset at Vic Grimes. New Jack mentioned that he got hurt and Grimes never called him or anything. But they failed to show the actual spot as well.

In the end, New Jack was a guy that made an okay living as a pro wrestler despite having the talent and charisma to make a much bigger living in wrestling. He was just too lazy and too much of a lowlife to become a bigger star and idiot promoters kept booking them to their detriment. He had the ability to turn Da Gangstas into the black Freebirds but because he was such of piece of shit that dissolved and he became a guy that cheap shotted wrestlers in the most vile way possible.





YR
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Sullivan did an interview with Jim Cornette discussing the Dark Side of the Ring episode on Nancy and Chris. You can find it on YouTube. I think it's worth checking out.

***SPOILER ALERT***



According to Kevin he was willing to do Dark Side of the Ring, but only if Nancy's parents gave the okay. He never heard the okay from Nancy's parents, so he did not participate. I get the feeling that Vice felt that since Nancy's sister, Sandra, participated that should have been good enough for Kevin. Kevin says it was not since he was much closer to Nancy's parents.

Kevin had talked about how his relationship with Nancy was on the rocks for a while leading up tot Nancy leaving him for Chris. They owned two places, one in Daytona Beach and another in the Florida Keys (that's about a 5 hour drive between the two). Kevin would stay in the Keys while Nancy would live in Daytona.

Kevin states that he was never violent with Nancy and never gave her a black eye. He was accused of this from Dean Malenko's wife and IIRC, implied from Vicky Guerrero. Kevin stated he had never met either woman.

Sullivan also disputes the stories about the match against Benoit turning into a shoot. He says that the claim that Chris broke his eardrum was a work playing off the Tyson v Holyfield ear biting incident. Kevin doesn't say it directly, but it sounds like he is stating that Sandra got the ear thing wrong and that he and Chris did a work where Chris bit Kevin's ear off instead. Cornette confirmed this as the match dated 2 weeks after the Tyson v Holyfield incident. Kevin also stated that he went scuba diving a couple of days afterward so he could not have broken his ear drum. And more to the point was that Kevin also flew around the country after the supposed broken ear drum.

Sullivan stated that he first approached Chris with the idea for the angle and Chris was apprehensive because his wife at the time was pregnant. They really didn't go into when Kevin was first starting to see Chris and Nancy having an affair together.

Overall, I tend to believe Kevin in all of this. Partly because years ago I had heard the same things about their relationship. I met Nancy when she was in ECW and remember being told by others that her and Kevin was married in name only as I was surprised she was working in ECW for peanuts while Kevin made really good money in WCW. I had also hear of an incident a few years later of Nancy attacking Kevin. Kevin confirms this and it is the only report of domestic violence between the two where Nancy actually went to jail for 3 days over the incident.

But the other reason why I believe Kevin is that he appears genuinely befuddled by Sandra's claims. Instead of viciously defending himself, he is very careful of his defense against Sandra's claims and tries to come up possible reasons as to why Sandra would make those claims without any semblance of resentment towards her. Either that or Kevin is brilliantly working here. But to me this is the response of a thoughtful person dealing with such an unthinkable situation.

The interview is good and Cornette does a pretty good job. This probably would have been an even better interview if Sean Oliver was doing it since he is incredible at interviewing people and gaining their trust in difficult discussions. However, I doubt Kevin would have ever done an interview like this with Oliver as Cornette is a long time friend that he trusts.

In the end, I feel badly for Kevin Sullivan. He went thru a difficult divorce where he lost one of his home's to Nancy. Then he was goofed on as 'the guy who booked his own divorce.' Then the wackos and shitbags accused him of killing Chris and Nancy and his children had to deal with it. Now he is being propped up as this violent abusive ex-husband to Nancy. The guy did nothing wrong (at least it appears that way). In fact, it appears that he had almost nothing to do with anything involving Chris and Nancy....and he and his family continue to take the brunt of how all of this went down.

I mentioned this on the WC board because I was surprised how Kevin was painted in the episode as I had heard differently years ago....I wouldn't be surprised if the Vice people took issue with Kevin not participating and took it out on him in the documentary. This was scoffed at by the fanboys, but I don't think it's far fetched.

My guess is that Vice thought Sandra participating should have been good enough. When it wasn't, Vice had no interest in thoroughly investigating everything. This has been the case in previous episodes, but in this episode in particular they never mention that the only record of domestic violence between Kevin and Nancy is Nancy going to jail for assaulting Kevin (with a knife nonetheless).

I don't know if I would say Vice did it with malice, but the more or less let it happy which is a shitty thing to let happen.

But check out the interview if you're interested in this story. The get a little sidetracked talking about the wrestling at that time and Nancy's work, but it's worth the listen.





YR
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Snuka and Nancy Argentino episode was one of their better ones. Not only did they get away from sloppy formatting, doing too many re-enactments and having a disorganized timeline, but the length of the episode fit the story almost perfectly.

This was one of those 'never meet your heroes' stories unlike Benoit who was clearly suffering from severe brain damage from years of concussions. This was Snuka, a cocaine addict who was an uncontrollable maniac when he was high and had a gumad on the road with him full-time. He was so out of control that even Buddy Rogers refused to go on the road with him anymore.

On a side note, I was at a WWF event in my hometown the day after Snuka got into the brawl with police. They announced that he was unable to make it as he was 'shot in the foot' and left it at that. I will say that Salina, NY is a small town that probably doesn't have a police force of big, burly cops. Had he brawled with cops in Syracuse in 1983, they probably would have ended up beating him to an inch of his life. Times were different back then.

The Pennsylvania cops come off as wholly incompetent and perhaps corrupt. The investigation was more or less a joke. Sam Fatu comes off as completely ignorant. Don Muraco doesn't come off too badly. He didn't really know what was going on other than Snuka being in trouble and admits that he selfishly didn't want him to get into trouble since they were having a big run at the time. But I don't imagine he knew all of the details and he seemed to hold some disdain for Snuka after the fact.

All of the reporters came off very well and excellent insight. Irv Mushnick is on the show, but they focused more on the local reporters.




YR
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting piece from Irv Muchnick on Sam Fatu's claims that he was in the car with Snuka and Argentino.

https://concussioninc.net/?p=14417




YR
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dino Bravo episode was a huge disappointment. I was a little surprised they didn't have the episode earlier in the season or have it in season 1. From the beginning the producers seemed to not be keen on the Bravo story. And this episode showed why as they didn't really get to the bottom of anything or have anything that was revelatory.

Last I knew, the Italian mafia still has a lot of power in Montreal . Despite it being an area where almost everybody speaks French and the minority can speak French and English, there's a large Italian population in Montreal. Back when I grew up about 3 hours from Montreal, cigarette smuggling was a huge deal. I'm not a smoker, but I was always told by French Canadians that American cigarettes were far cheaper and much better and it was the number one thing customs agents would ask when crossing the border into Canada...do you have any cigarettes?

Some also have to be reminded that this was pre-9/11 and you could come and go as you please into and out of Canada which only made the smuggling a bigger issue at that time.

They really teased what happened and who possibly did it to Bravo and then came away with paltry information that we already knew. Bravo was shot 18 times at close range, no sign of forced entry and it was clear that this was either a mob hit or a Hells Angels hit on the behest of the mob. I ten to lean on it being the former. From what I gathered the Hells Angels were just getting involved with the mob in Monteal at the time and it's clear that Bravo was friendly with his killer. I'm guessing the 18 bullets were to make sure he was dead because Bravo would easily identify the shooters if he survived. Bravo's uncle was a mob boss and had he survived this would have likely started a war.

I just don't think Bravo was friends with any of the Hells Angels members at the time this happened.

Other than that, DSOTR had little to say. I wonder if the mob has either scared them off or made it impossible to get information on the murder.




YR
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