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2020-2021 L.A. Lakers Thread (Repeat)

 
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jdw
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:37 pm    Post subject: 2020-2021 L.A. Lakers Thread (Repeat) Reply with quote



We know the goal...


Last edited by jdw on Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:22 am; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lakers payroll for next year at this moment:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/yearly/cap/roster

AD will opt-out and sign an extension with a max raise.

Green is on the books for $15,365,854 in 2021, then a free agent. It feels like a "lot", but he's a contract that would fit into a trade for a better player. He also played better this year than most people give him credit for. He was a very good, high level defender who helped set the tone for the the team being committed to defense. I'm perfectly okay going in either direct - him coming back as a Wing that we can count on to play at the same level in recent years, or going out as a contract in getting a better #3 on the squad.

Pope has a $8,543,746 opt-out. My guess is that him might opt-out if there's something in the range of a 3-year contract out there in the range of $21M total ($7M per year). He's just 27 next year. The Lakers paid him very well in 2018 & 2019, and the two year contract for 2020 & 2021 was probably over his worth at the time each was handed out. Maybe he opts-in and roles the dice with another season. Despite his couple of big performances in the Final, those $5M to $8M contracts start adding up when you're over the cap. Those things just killed the Cavs eventually, like JR Smith's $12M-$14M contracts. I like him with the right contract, but we need to avoid too much and too long. Going to be tricky.

Bradley has $5M contract with a player opt-out. I like that price, and like that it's of a short length. I wouldn't be surprised if Bradley opt-out because it might be uncomfortable give him didn't go to the bubble. There likely is some team out there that would give him a multi-year deal based on the level of his offense (solid) and defense (very good). If "all is forgiven", I would love to see him back as that price and length is good for a reliable hand who knows how to fit in with the team. I expect Caruso's role to expand next year, especially if he works on the shortcomings of his came (3P shooting and inconsistent finishing in the lane). There would be overlap in the guard rotation of KCP-Bradley-Caruso-Rondo and perhaps some minutes issues.

McGee has a $4,200,000 player opt-out, while Howard is a Unrestricted Free Agent. My guess is that Howard would like a bump from his $2.5M range contract up to something like McGee's since he pretty much was as valuable if more more than McGee this year. In turn, McGee likely isn't going to find $4.2M out there, and likely enjoys playing with these guys. It's kind of messy as they need only one of these guys at the $4M range, and then need another "good defensive team playing Center" as a back up at the minimum. I don't know if Howard would sign another one-year deal at $4M if say McGee were moved in a deal as contract filler. I also don't know if we just thank Howard for one year where he didn't flake out, and not risk him flaking out next year. Hard to really count on him having the fire to chase the title like Lebron Supporting Players. The safest might just be that if McGee opt-in, you cut bait on Howard and look for someone else in the spot as back up / depth. We all agree that AD needs more minutes at the #5, but humoring him by the regular season at mostly #4 probably is good to keep him from taking a banging, making him happy, and letting you focus his #5 time in match ups where it's needed, crunch time, and the playoffs.

Cook has $3,000,000 for one year left on his contract. My guess is that he will be a trade filler contract. He basically wasn't playable in the playoffs. We can't be wasting $3M on someone who was of no real value in the regular season and then couldn't be played in the post season.

Caruso is at $2,750,000 for next year, then a RFA. Of course he's coming back. He reflected his value in the playoffs, but also what he needs to work on. The defensive effort and quality is high end. The offense needs a good deal of work. If he can just up the Corner Threes and Wide Open Catch & Shoot Threes to a consistently Above Average level, he's going to get quite a bit more playing time. If he can improve his lane ball handling, finishing and decision making, he's going to be a much more valuable player. The three point shooting shouldn't be hard to improve and become more consistent. Worse shooters have gotten better with work ethic and focus. The tricky thing with him is that if he does make a step forward nect year, he's going to be in line for a decent sized contract extension. You can't overpay role players, so it's going to take some care.

Rondo has a $2,619,605 player option. He had too many playoff games not to try to opt-out and look for a multi-year contract somewhere. He played so many shitty regular season games, and even in Playoff Rondo mode was inconsistent so he remains a frustrating player. On the other hand... he was HUGE in some HUGE games that just put a Banner up in the Staples Center. You want him back, you'd hope his focused for the entire season rather than National TV Games and Playoffs, and you'd hope he comes back at a reasonably low price and not for a long contract. This is going to be one of the touch contracts of the off season, and one where GM Lebron might screw things up if the word gets out that he wants Rondo back at any prices. We can't have one of those JR Smith contracts for Rondo. Even $8M a year for three years is tough. One to watch.

Kuzman is $3,562,178 for one year, then a RFA. As much as he picked up his defense in the Bubble... he was godawful offensively. The biggest risk for him is if next season he reverts to 2018 Kuzma level offense while maintaining the defensive improvement, he's in for a rather large raise into the $12M to $15M range... and that based on 2 good offensive seasons in 4 years, and improved defense for 1.3 years. That's not a reliable player to be paying $12M+ for 4 years. I think he needs to go. He wasn't reliable at all in the playoffs. He missed a ton of corner 3s, which he has no business missing to that degree. Just can't rely on him.

Markieff is a UFA. I don't know what he wants. I really would like to see him return at a reasonable price. I liked his defensive effort, versatility, willingness to stay in role player mode rather than dick swinging, .418 from 3 in the playoff. I think the more he plays with Bron and Davis, the better he plays with them. Barring some trade bringing in someone better, I think Kieff would be a better more reliable bench Wing Big pairing with Davis and Bron than Kuz. He was bought out by the Pistons on a two year, $6.56M total contract. It's really hard to see him signing for *less* than that $3M-$3.5M range and for a few years. I wouldn't be surprised if he looks for $5M a year, but with the cap and money likely being very flat next year, that money might not be out there. I'd love to get him at say $4M for a couple of year, or lower.

Dudley is gone. Waiters is gone. JR is gone.

Horton-Tucker has a $1,517,981 contract, then is a RFA. One expects his role to expand next year *if* he plays defense at the level the team expects.

More later on thoughts of what they can do. We can be *better* next year.
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before John falls all over himself in love with the idea....Chris Paul would destroy the Lakers. It would be the end of any title hopes.--- Steve Yohe
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jdw
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
Before John falls all over himself in love with the idea....Chris Paul would destroy the Lakers. It would be the end of any title hopes.--- Steve Yohe


He makes $41,358,814 next year, and has a player option of $44,211,146 for 2021/22. The contract makes for a messy (though not impossible) trade, and a really screwed up Cap after AD signs his monster extension. It would also make construction of the rest of the roster a bit tricky.

On the other hand, Paul is a terrific player, and is extremely tight with Bron. He's only a chemistry issue with knuckleheads like Blake and DeAndre Jordan. He wouldn't have issues with Bron, and wouldn't have them with AD.

I'd prefer it if he was making $20M.
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He sucks! Go a head & screw up the team. He has had trouble everywhere. --- Yohe
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jdw
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Orleans were 18-64 the year before he played for them. The went 38-44 his first season, then 39-43, 56-26, 49-33, 37-45 & 46-36 with him, making the playoffs in three of the last four season. They dropped to 21-45 when he left.

The Clippers were a 103-225 (.314) in the four seasons prior to CP3 joining them, an average of 26 win. They played .606 ball in his first year there, making the playoffs. In his six years there, the Clippers played .658 ball, which is 54 wins per year in an 82 game schedule. They made the playoffs every season. They dropped from 51-31 in his last season to 42-40 in their first season without him.

Houston were 45-37, 54-28, 56-26, 41-41 & 55-27 in the Harden era before CP3 joined them. They went 65-17 in their first season with CP3, 9 more wins than any Harden season, and 7 more than the franchise record set back with their first of their back-to-back title seasons in 1994. They played .793 and .646 ball with him in the two seasons he was there. They dropped to .611 ball without him.

OKC played .585 and .598 ball in their two season with Westbrook and Paul George paired together. They traded both away, got CP3, were expected to be in the lottery this year... and ended up playing .611 ball.

Every single team CP3 has played for got better with him *instantly*. That's four different teams, not one or two flukey team. The smallest improvement was what happened this year, though most people think it was the most impressive.

Every single team CP3 left got worse. OKC certainly will next season if he leaves. Again, the will be four different teams.

He also hasn't been trouble "everywhere".

He wasn't a problem in New Orleans other than wanting a chance to play on a better team. That team specifically was the Lakers. And he was traded here before Stern cancelled the trade.

He wasn't really a problem with the Clippers other than wanting more out of goofballs like Blake and Jordan.

He wasn't a problem in Houston at all other than wanting Harden to play harder on defense. Harden is a goofball... we all know that. An off the charts offensive player, but a goofball. It was Harden who cried uncle and decided he didn't want to play with CP3 anymore, and the owner who forced the trade.

He had ZERO problems in OKC. It was one of the feel good stories of the season.

Basically CP3 only really has issues with goofball teammates or goofball organizations like New Orleans at the time.

Are Bron and AD goofballs? No.

We can debate whether the current Lakers organization is goofball, but the Larry O Trophy cuts them some slack for the moment.

CP3 doesn't remotely suck. He's actually a great player. We all know it.

Does he have playoff issues? Sure. So do a lot of players.

Saying he sucks would be like people saying Elgin sucks because he never won the Big One.

Your answer to that would be that those people are dumb fucks about Elgin.

Don't be dumb about CP3. He's not perfect. But he is an exceptional player, which he was again this season.

* * * * *

To be clear, I'm not advocating trading for him. I have concerns about what that contract does to our payroll flexibility. I'd happily take him half that amount.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read something about Paul going to the Kinks. Sounds like a great idea.--Yohe
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baylor's team went to 8 NBA finals. And he won a ton a big games. A lot by himself.

In 1958, Minneapolis was 19 - 53 & in last place. In 1959 with Baylor they went to the NBA finals

I watched Paul as a clipper. He was a dick. So happy he is gone.

--Yohe
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KO mentions five Bigs the Lakers might chase as an improvement over Howard/McGee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t19alVEkYT8

Age next season and the salary they had this past season on their just expired contracts:

Marc Gasol (36 / $25,595,700)
Serge Ibaka (31 / $23,271,604)
Tristan Thompson (29 / $18,539,130)
Aron Baynes (34 / $5,453,280)
Boogie Cousins (29 / $3,500,000)

I can't say that I'm enthused about any of them.

I don't care for Gasol's health risk. At his age, I don't think he's going to get better healthwise. On some level, I'd like to see him go to GSW in the old Bogut role to chase another title. Low pressure on him, low expectations, high IQ that would fit in, ect.

Boogie wasn't a good defensive player before having back-to-back Achilles and ACL injuries, so he's got to be horrid whenever he returns. I don't think we can bring in a non-defensive center.

We would be asking Serge to take a haircut down to even the Mid-Level Exception of $10M... and that's a lot for a guy that you're likely to have on the bench down the stretch as the team goes with AD at the 5 and Bron at the 4. He's not likely to sign at the minimum that Howard did.

Thompson has played with Bron, and made a ton of money thanks to Bron. He's an undersized 5 at 6-9, and I think KO overrated his 3's given a very small sample size. You don't pay someone like Thompson $10M, anymore than CLE should have paid what he made under that massive contract. He is a guy that would be interesting at $2M.


I don't care for Baynes' age, because that's a period where guys can just lose their wheels. He is cheaper, especially if he's Title Hunting. He's a more realistic "stretch 5" with his 3 point shooting going back to his Boston time. He is a good defensive player, thanks to breaking in with the Spurs for three seasons and passing through two Stevens era seasons in Boston. He has a history of being a good pick and roll defender, and got good reviews on his defense this year. He did get Covid prior to the bubble, and got his ass kicked so badly that despite joining the team in the bubble never ended up playing. We don't really know the long term impact of Covid, especially on people who get beaten up by it. That might be good in keeping his price down. If he signs cheap, he likely would want at least a 1+1 with the second year a player option to protect against decline/injury. That's what his last contract was. I would think he's a decent team chemistry guy for a role player given his 5 combined seasons under Pop and Stevens... but we are a bit of a quirky team chemistry team. He of course is less nutty than McGee and Howard. I wouldn't mind him in Howard's place as he might give more options to the team... though he isn't the roll & lob / high-low type of guy that Howard and McGee are playing next to AD.

It's a really weak FA class, with not a lot of teams having cash.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
Baylor's team went to 8 NBA finals. And he won a ton a big games. A lot by himself.

In 1958, Minneapolis was 19 - 53 & in last place. In 1959 with Baylor they went to the NBA finals


You and I know that.

You and I also know that the #1 reason that he is the most forgotten Superstar in NBA history is because he won 0 titles. How history remembers him, when it does, is a guy who was Really Great But Won Nothing. Like Barkley and Karl Malone, even though we know Baylor was better in the context of his times.

CP3 is a Great Player Who Has Won Nothing. As I've said before, if you swapped him for Tony Parker when CP3 was in the draft, Chris Paul would have won more titles than Parker did. The reality is that Paul never played next to someone as Really Great as Tim Duncan, never had a coach as good as Pop, and never had a front office as good as the Spurs... let alone all three of those things in *one place*.

Baylor was unlucky that Red created better teams, starting with Russell. He was unlucky that Wilt choked in back-to-back Game 7s in 1969 (against a past-it Russell) and 1970 (against a maimed Reed). And unlucky that his own knee injuries reduced him as a player where he couldn't pick up the slack strong enough for Choking Wilt in either of those Game 7s that the Lakers could have still won despite Wilt choking. :)


Quote:
I watched Paul as a clipper.


As did I.

Quote:
He was a dick.


Lots of players are dicks. Doesn't mean some dicks aren't great players.

Quote:
So happy he is gone.


And you were the one who spent the whole season shitting on the Clippers for not trying hard, while OKC was one of the feel good stories of the year because... they tried hard every game.

Kobe was a dick... a much bigger dick than Paul. I was glad he retired so he didn't hang over the team anymore.

On the other hand, Kobe was a Really Great Player.

I'm not saying that CP3 is at Really Great Players leve. He's just a Great Player, which is awfully good.
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great?????
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JAG



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We’re not getting CP3 unless no one else offers for him which is unlikely and LeBron tells the Lakers to do it.

It’s possible under the cap, but unlikely.

Oladipo would be my pick for the Green-Kuzma-1st offer.

It’s gonna be a wild month after the draft if they’re topping off by Christmas.

Jagdip
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jdw
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAG wrote:
We’re not getting CP3 unless no one else offers for him which is unlikely and LeBron tells the Lakers to do it.

It’s possible under the cap, but unlikely.


Agreed.



Quote:
Oladipo would be my pick for the Green-Kuzma-1st offer.


I would prefer not to pick up someone with one year at $21M left on his contract who 36 and 19 games the last two year trying to comeback from a terrible injury and playing... well... poorly (2019) and awful (2020). You're basically hoping he gets back to 2018 health and form... when 2018 is the only season he played at 2018 form. I don't think we should overestimate his bubble play, where a number of people had some fluke performances.

With Bron and AD, it's the $2M-$5M players that we take flyers on, not the $20M players. If we're going to take on a $20M contract, we need someone who we know is going to perform at a certain level.


Quote:
It’s gonna be a wild month after the draft if they’re topping off by Christmas.


No doubt.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
Great?????


CP3 has been a Great Player.

He's played 15 seasons. He's been either the best player on his team 13 of those years, and the second best player twice (behind Harden). New Orleans was an awful team the year before he joined. The Clippers were the laughing stock of the NBA before he joined them. OKC was going into a tanking season when he joined them. Only Houston was a playoff level team when he joined. Despite that, he's teams have *averaged* 50 wins per 83 games played... all of those seasons in the brutal NBA West.

He's been on the League teams this many times:

2007-08 All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 All-NBA (2nd)
2010-11 All-NBA (3rd)
2011-12 All-NBA (1st)
2012-13 All-NBA (1st)
2013-14 All-NBA (1st)
2014-15 All-NBA (2nd)
2015-16 All-NBA (2nd)
2019-20 All-NBA (2nd)


2007-08 All-Defensive (2nd)
2008-09 All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 All-Defensive (2nd)
2011-12 All-Defensive (1st)
2012-13 All-Defensive (1st)
2013-14 All-Defensive (1st)
2014-15 All-Defensive (1st)
2015-16 All-Defensive (1st)
2016-17 All-Defensive (1st)

There's only one 3rd team among them, so it's not like he's fluked onto any of them.

For he's career he's averaged 19-5-10 on .471/.370/.870 shooting while averaging 2 steals a game. He's not a ball hogging gunner, but an extremely efficient player... one of the most efficient of his generation.

This past season it was 18-5-7 on .489/.365/.907 with 2 steals a game. He's actually still very close to his career numbers, with only the assists down because he played on a team that deployed 3 point guards - CP3 (18-5-7), Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (19-6-3) and Dennis Schroder (19-4-4) with CP3 willing to share the ball handling load with the others for the betterment of the team.

He's been a Great Player through his career. He's going to be a first ballot HOFer.

I get it, you don't like him.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drop it ....I knew you would go nuts. Your a fanboy. I'll never bring it up again .... until he fails for his next team.---- Yohe
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