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Michael Jackson is dead.
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eron



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
Failure in every way you can judge a human.----Steve Yohe


Like I say to anyone who tries to excuse the molestation charges, you can't deny he was one of the worst parents to ever live. Just because he didn't beat them (har har), doesn't mean he wasn't a terrible dad. Letting strange kids sleep in your bed while your kids are around, hell around or not... for fuck sakes.

I'm sick of people "The Grinch was misunderstood!" anyone who is a fuck up.
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Rian



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's going to change Bubble's diapers anyway? Why this guy's death is being celebrated like it has I'll never know.
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Iron Chad



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're probably not old enough to remember when he was relevant, and he was always huge in Europe and Asia where they ignored/didn't care about the child molestation charges
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Rian



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like jdw said earlier, he stopped being relevant in 1984. Heck Michael Jackson should be known better by the credit problem that is currently facing the entire world. Sure he was worth hundreds of millions, but if you're spending billions of dollars each and every year, you're no different than family's living from paycheck to paycheck and borrowing all they can from their credit cards and other sources of credit.


I could not care less about the fact he was popular in Europe and Asia, does that mean the world will stop for days when David Hasselhoff eventually passes? Sure he was a great singer, but there have been plenty of great singers who have passed on since Elvis and none of them received what Michael has.


Celebrate bankruptcy I guess.
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Bob Morris



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth be told, there is a far better argument that, among popular 80's artists, Madonna has had a greater influence on music than MJ has, and thus would be closer to the "top in pop" crown.

I'm not taking away from what MJ has done. But after the 1980's ended, MJ's career was in decline, while Madonna was not without her critics (and also has her share of nutty ordeals), but kept going strong for many years.

Doesn't matter whether you like Madonna or not. In her case, the argument for her influence is strong. MJ reached his heights, but his influence wasn't as great and his star faded much faster than Madonna's.
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Rian



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll agree with that Bob. Michael really only had the videos going for him after the 80's while Madonna had the whole package.
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jdw
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Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 16984

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rian wrote:
Like jdw said earlier, he stopped being relevant in 1984.


I'm not going to go that far. I didn't care much for his music that was released after 1982 (Thriller). The tail of Thriller went all the way out to early 1984 when the title track was released as the final single from the album.

I didn't care for Bad or Dangerous. On the other hand, I can't say that these weren't relevant:

Bad
* #1 album for 6 weeks
* five #1 singles (only album to do that) + a #7 & #11

Dangerous
* #1 album for 4 weeks
* a #1, #3, #6 & #7

Those sold s shitload of albums.

I don't know if I'd say he was terribly relevant at the time of History, though it did have another #1 along with the duer with Janet that went Top 5.

But he was still extremely relevant for Bad and to a degree for Dangerous as well. I think with Bad it was more that he was becoming something of a joke to a lot of people, but still have a stong fan base. With Dangerous he was more of a joke, but had enough of a fan base to move albums and hit the charts.

John
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Iron Chad



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see Bad, "Black or White" was a lasting single that carried on the tradition of Mike pairing with a big metal guitarist, Eddie Van Halen on "Beat it" to Slash. That riff is still instantly recognizable and it had a memorable video.

Dangerous, sold a lot of albums, so did Tiffany, that doesn't make her important or even memorable. I can't name one song off of Dangerous.

-Chad
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Rian



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanilla Ice sold a ton of albums as well, he's more known for lying about being a motocross rider.
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corrado



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iron Chad wrote:
I could see Bad, "Black or White" was a lasting single that carried on the tradition of Mike pairing with a big metal guitarist, Eddie Van Halen on "Beat it" to Slash. That riff is still instantly recognizable and it had a memorable video.

Dangerous, sold a lot of albums, so did Tiffany, that doesn't make her important or even memorable. I can't name one song off of Dangerous.

-Chad


Heh, you did name a song from Dangerous in your post. "Black or White."

Yeah while Bad and Dangerous were medicore compared to Thriller, both from a sales perspective and from a long-lasting perspective, both were still blockbusters. With half the songs from those records, being released as singles and music videos. That's very rare in music today. Having a whole bunch of songs released from an album, spread out over, not only a year, but two years too.

And Dangerous was still pretty big-time. I believe around that timeframe, the "King of Pop" moniker was crowned. And as a result, each music video from that album was treated as must-see TV. With them premiering after the Simpsons, and on other channels as the same time. I dont think anybody can stake claim to that, having their videos being treated as events. But in recent years with both the decline of MTV, and the internet premiering videos, we'll never have anyone like that again.
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Bob Morris



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One can definitely say MJ showed what MTV and music videos could do for a musical career. That's definitely where his influence on the music industry shows.

When I brought up Madonna, it wasn't meant to diminish what MJ did. But facts are facts: Madonna has lasted well into this current decade and found ways to make herself relevant, even through her faults.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rian wrote:
Vanilla Ice sold a ton of albums as well, he's more known for lying about being a motocross rider.


Ice was relevant at the time getting more white kids into rap, and he's still relevant since all one needs to do is start that riff and people start joking about him.

Ice also was a one hit wonder. That's a far cry from an artist having 5 #1 singles on one album, which had never been done before or since.

I thought he was a joke by that point. I was groaning through the Bad video when Cheetah and I were watching it the other day. But she still has some fond memories of Bad, even though she's a far bigger fan of Off The Wall. So just because we think Mike went out with 1984 doesn't mean that's what happened.


John
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kjh



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iron Chad wrote:
You're probably not old enough to remember when he was relevant, and he was always huge in Europe and Asia where they ignored/didn't care about the child molestation charges


Being English, I think the latter is a little unfair. I was hardly the only one of my friends who voiced their dismay at the eulogizing after his death. I do think though the child molestation charges weren't covered as in much depth here in the UK, so it's easier for people to bury their heads in the sand and naively assume he was undoubtedly innocent, but there are nutty fans everywhere.
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Iron Chad



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kjh wrote:
Iron Chad wrote:
You're probably not old enough to remember when he was relevant, and he was always huge in Europe and Asia where they ignored/didn't care about the child molestation charges


Being English, I think the latter is a little unfair. I was hardly the only one of my friends who voiced their dismay at the eulogizing after his death. I do think though the child molestation charges weren't covered as in much depth here in the UK, so it's easier for people to bury their heads in the sand and naively assume he was undoubtedly innocent, but there are nutty fans everywhere.


I agree that does paint with too broad a brush. I'm certainly not saying they fly the "CHILD MOLESTATION IS A-OK!" banner in the UK. It probably was more of the molestation not being covered as much as it was in the US.

My whole post was fucked up though, as I think I combined "Bad" and "Dangerous" in my mind and confused "Dangerous" with "Hisstory" which was a bit of a bomb for Michael. Recommendation to avoid that last post of mine.

-Chad
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad may not have been as strong of an album as Thriller, but Bad was clearly the album where Michael Jackson hit his peak as a pop artist. Dangerous was successful in its own right, but that's where it was clear that MJ was in decline in some ways.

And as I said, "Will You Be There" was his last good tune after Dangerous. From that point on, nothing clicked and some of MJ's material clearly showed he had lost it.
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