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NBA Top 50 Players of All-Time
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Steve Yohe



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2807
Location: Wonderful Montebello CA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You put Yao Ming on your list, you suck. Your not old enough or something.--Yohe
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jdw
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Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at my list way back on the first page, some active guys:


10. LeBron James

I would have him at #4 after MJ, Russell and Cap. Not saying he can't pass Cap, but I'd rather hedge on being cautious.


27. Dwyane Wade

Hasn't moved up, and I might move him down.

30. Kevin Durrant

I had Dirk at #17. Hard not to see KD as being better than Dirk. I'd say Dirk being the anchor of a team that beat Bron-Wade-Bosh in the Final... a Mavs team that didn't have a true all star that season as the #2 (let alone #3 and #4) behind Dirk... damn, that accomplishment by Dirk was flat out insane. The Mavs have continued to be good since then, and even being a bad defensive player hasn't kept Dirk from anchoring that team into the playoffs year after year in the tough West. KD is better than Dirk, but damn if Dirk hasn't had a great career while carrying one of the most oddball teams every to win a Title.

Ahead of Dirk on my list were Hondo then Elgin than Moses...

No, KD isn't ready to be ahead of those guys year. He'll get there, but not yet.

I'm thinking KD is close to the Top 20 level.


Other active players:

Curry would be in my Top 50... moving up quickly

I don't know if Pau makes my Top 50. He's similar to Worthy, who isn't in my Top 50.

CP3 is better than some of the players on my list.

Westbrook and Harden... don't know what to make of those two yet. Wait and see how their career turn out in another five years. It's easier to place Curry on the list given what he did before KD joined the team.

Don't know who else would move onto the list.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
You put Yao Ming on your list, you suck. Your not old enough or something.--Yohe


It's an ESPN list with a number of contributors to it. They're old enough to put Jabbar #2. When you get down into the 90-100 slots (or 45-50 slots in a Top 50), you get some quirky picks. I had Bobby Dandridge on mine. Kind of a point that I wanted to make down there, and I don't feel bad about it looking back. Suspect that's what some voters were thinking about Yao.

Would he make my Top 100? No. :)
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jdw
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDW's updated through the end of 2016/17

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. LeBron James
5. Tim Duncan
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Jerry West

11. Oscar Robertson
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
13. Shaquille O'Neal
14. Moses Malone
15. Elgin Baylor
16. John Havlicek
17. Dirk Nowitzki
18. Kevin Durrant
19. Julius Erving
20. Isiah Thomas

21. Kevin Garnett
22. Walt Frazier
23. Rick Barry
24. Steph Curry
25. Karl Malone
26. Charles Barkley
27. Dwyane Wade
28. Sam Jones
29. Scottie Pippen
30. Dave Cowens

31. Kevin McHale
32. David Robinson
33. Dennis Rodman
34. John Stockton
35. Willis Reed
36. Gary Payton
37. Steve Nash
38. Billy Cunningham
39. Bob Pettit
40. Bob Cousy

41. George Mikan
42. Chris Paul
43. Paul Pierce
44. Dennis Johnson
45. Ray Allen
46. Bob McAdoo
47. David Thompson
48. Hal Greer
49. Bob Dandridge
50. Bill Walton
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elliott



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
Looking at my list way back on the first page, some active guys:

snip

Don't know who else would move onto the list.


I'm not ready to put him on just yet, but one or two more seasons like the one he had this year and Kawhi Leonard will be a really strong candidate to make the list.

Last two seasons he was:
21/7/3/2/1 with 50/44/87 shooting
25/6/3/2/1 with 48/38/88 shooting

Plus he has the Finals MVP and 2x Defensive POY, 2x First Team All NBA, 2x First Team All Defense, 1x Second Team All Defense. He'll probably have a top 3 MVP finish this year.

Add a couple more seasons as the Spurs Alpha Dog with the usual 50+ win seasons, a couple more All Star games, couple more first team defense, maybe a couple more first or 2nd team all NBA, maybe another DPOY and he's moving into Lock status.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Kawhi a lot, and he's just 25 coming into his own on the offensive side. I'm pretty comfortable in believing he'll make the list in a few more years.

I don't quite know what to do with Harden and Westbrook. They both have been good for a while, on good teams.

The Rockets have gone 45-37, 54-28, 56-26, 41-41 & 55-27 since Harden got there, and that's in the West rather than the crappy East. They probably would have won 60 a time or two in the East. He's clearly someone you can build a good team around. If one is buying the Iceman and AI concept, Harden is pretty much the modern equiv of tremendous offensive force, questionable defense, and limits to the high end of the team that is being built around him.

Westbrook is even more an AI force of nature. It will be interesting to see how OKC sustains what they had last year, and how/if it wears Russ down, or the team down.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McHale is probably someone that I should rethink. One All-NBA team: 1st team in 1986/87. Tom Chambers and Alex English were one more. McHale is better than both, and was on a team where he wasn't the focus of the offense (adding in that he was the 6th man for his first four and a half seasons). So his numbers were typically fluffed to All Pro levels. But... it's a really short span at the top.

I think the issue is that I was there watching those Celtics, and McHale spooked us even more than Worthy made fans of other teams nervous. It was kind of obvious that McHale was the better player. Heck, Worthy wasn't making All Pro at the time either.

So 31 feels like it's too high. Robinson could easily have been Bird's #2, and likely would have thrived in the role even more than McHale did. Pressure off, more gifted than McHale, smart player who would have gotten his game in line with Bird's and would have had no issues being the #2.

That said, I don't know how far I could drop him. Rodman is the best defender that I've ever seen, but he's no #2 on a team. Stockton wasn't a #2 on a title team, and on the Celts would have been the #4 or #5. Payton wouldn't accept being the #2 to Bird... Nash had a major flaw in his game (defense) that really impacted his teams ability to win titles. Cunningham's career at the top was just as short as McHale's, if not shorter. Pettit, Cousy and Mikan ate up seasons where the number of Black Players was low. Drop McHale into Mikan's spot, and those Lakers win just as many titles - McHale was a vastly more skilled and athletically gifted player, despite looking just as dorky. CP3 is perfectly suited for being a #2 matched with a high end all-time great player on a dynasty... the only problem is that we haven't seen CP3 in that role, while we did see McHale thrive on some great teams in that role.

It's pretty tough. I've got a cluster of terrific players there who are great #2's on title teams (Wade, Jones, Pippen, Cowens & McHale) who were in situations and eras that were pretty perfect for them. I love those types of players, and kind of get the feeling that those four are the best of that type... with the exception of a couple of top 20 players who played that role than evolved into being the #1 on later title teams. It's possible that some other folks below those four could have thrived in similar situations.

CP3 is the one who jumps out the most - swap him with Tony Parker when CP3 came into the league, and the Spurs win more titles in those years than they did with Parker (i.e. they won just 2 after Paul came into the league). It's one reason why I'm comfortable having Paul on the list - he's a great #2 who never got to have that chance in his prime.
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1205

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
The Rockets have gone 45-37, 54-28, 56-26, 41-41 & 55-27 since Harden got there, and that's in the West rather than the crappy East. They probably would have won 60 a time or two in the East. He's clearly someone you can build a good team around. If one is buying the Iceman and AI concept, Harden is pretty much the modern equiv of tremendous offensive force, questionable defense, and limits to the high end of the team that is being built around him.

Until he hurt his wrist, I thought Harden was a lock to win the MVP. The injury, plus Westbrook's incredible last month, completely swung the race.

Quote:
Westbrook is even more an AI force of nature. It will be interesting to see how OKC sustains what they had last year, and how/if it wears Russ down, or the team down.

OKC also out-performed their win expectancy by 4 games. According to ESPN's model, they were expected to go 43-39 instead of their actual 47-35. Then again, it's Westbrook. At this point, it's hard to put anything past that dude.

glenn
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
Payton wouldn't accept being the #2 to Bird...

This is a good question. You are probably right, but then again Payton shared the stage with Shawn Kemp and set up most of his highlights. And, Payton accepted a lower role with the Lakers, though obviously he was way past his prime then. I checked Basketball Reference for the stats comparison between Payton and Kemp during the glory years of the Sonics. Kemp was great, but Payton was just a little bit better.

glenn
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guren - you need to contribute a Top 50 now that your team has won two titles in three years. Only fair. ;)
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guren



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Stephen Curry
2. Rick Barry
3. Draymond Green
4. Klay Thompson
5. Andre Iguodala
6. Chris Mullin
7. Mitch Richmond
8. Tim Hardaway
9. Purvis Short
10. Marreese Speights

Hmmm, I will add 40 more later.

glenn
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now now, that's not fair. :)
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Steve Yohe



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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Location: Wonderful Montebello CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick Barry at #2 & no Nate Thurmond. Are you bias or something?--Yohe
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1205

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
Rick Barry at #2 & no Nate Thurmond. Are you bias or something?--Yohe

I became an NBA and GSW fan in 1972, the year that Rick Barry returned. My best friend in elementary school was a distant relative of Barry's wife at the time (Pam Hale) and he turned me into a fan. Nate the Great played two more years for the Warriors, then he was traded to the Bulls in the championship year for Clifford Ray. Nate is absolutely one of the greatest Warriors, but I just don't remember his playing days well.

glenn
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
Guren - you need to contribute a Top 50 now that your team has won two titles in three years. Only fair. ;)

Here are my top 20. My limited attention span won't allow me to expand the list to 50 yet.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. LeBron James
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Tim Duncan
8. Wilt Chamberlain
9. Jerry West
10. Oscar Robertson
11. Kobe Bryant
12. Elgin Baylor
13. Hakeem Olajuwon
14. Shaquille O'Neal
15. Moses Malone
16. Kevin Garnett
17. Dirk Nowitzki
18. Rick Barry
19. Steph Curry
20. Karl Malone

glenn
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