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Pro Wrestling Match Hall of Fame
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elliott



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Pro Wrestling Match Hall of Fame Reply with quote

Hey fellas!

Over on another board (Pro Wrestling Only) I've been asked behind the scenes to help assist in putting together a Pro Wrestling Match Hall of Fame. We are in the very beginning stages of figuring out how to structure the whole thing but we're going to loosely model it after the WON HOF (with a few differences). We're going to do voting from day 1. Matches will be at least 20-25 years old so we won't have to think about that stupid Kenny Omega match for 25 years. We're are still discussing criteria, but from the looks of things it will be a similar criteria to the WON HOF: Importance, drawing, influence, workrate. With workrate really being the least important criteria (We keep using Hogan/Andre as our example not Savage/Steamboat. We want the Hogan/Andres first).

I was wondering if John, Steve, really anybody here could help by suggesting the "no brainer" matches from really the Pre-WWF expansion era. I know that's a ridiculous question because that's like 100 years. I'm not looking for a list of 500 matches (I'll take it though, believe me!) just the ones that if they aren't at least nominated for the first class would be glaring omissions.

So far I've got:
Gotch vs Hack I & II
Joe Stecher vs Ed Lewis 7/4/1916 Omaha 5 Hour Draw
Jim Londos vs Dick Shikat 6/6/1930
Jim Londos vs. Ed Lewis 9/20/1934
Danno O'Mahoney vs Ed Don George 7/30/35 Braves Field. Boston, MA
Lou Thesz vs Baron Michele Leone LA Title Unification 25,256 $103,256
Buddy Rogers vs Pat O'Connor 6/30/61

Obviously I'm missing a ton of things. I mean, I could dig around wrestling classics, but I'd really just be searching for Steve's posts anyways so I figured the easiest thing to do is just ask you guys directly. This is really the whole reason I want to do this project. Its a fun idea and it'll be fun talking about and debating matches. But I'd much rather take the history lesson and use this as an opportunity to learn more about folks like Jim Londos or Joe Stecher. So what are the biggest/most important matches that I'm missing and would HAVE to be in or at least considered from day 1? I'm looking for the Kareems, the Jordans, the Magic's.

Thanks in advance!
Elliott
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Steve Yohe



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2388
Location: Wonderful Montebello CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elliott

I've been working on a project for well over a year. Maybe two. I spend 2 or 3 hours a day working on it. I think about it all the time. It's a time line telling the history of pro wrestling thru it's matches. At this point it's like 480 pages. I don't know if it's any good or if anyone will read it. But I'm doing it in partnership with another writer & I'm only going only up to 1983, and he'd do the rest. It's going to be a huge book & we hope it makes some money. Fuck who knows. But I'm working with another guy & it's his project.

If I wasn't doing that, I'd jump on your project...but as is....I don't think I should go crazy on this. I'm thinking about it.

Because of it, I'm short on time. I'm also committed to the LA HOF voting in most of Feb. I see it kind of like a job, even if it ends up a waste of time...or the rest of my life.

A hint would be my other post below. The March 2, 1935 Dick Shikat double-cross on Danno O'Mahoney in MSG, to me, is the most important match in wrestling history. It changed everything.--Steve Yohe
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Ken Viewer



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, and thanks to the legendary newsreels historian and wrestling historian Raging Bull, we have film of that Shikat-O'Mahoney finish.

Ken
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elliott



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,

Holy crap that book sounds incredible! That's really great and important work you're doing. I cannot wait to see the finished project. I need to re-read your Danno bio this weekend.

I'll make sure people know about Shikat vs O'Mahoney. I'll make it my mission to get that in on the first ballot when it comes time to vote.

I kind of had Londos vs Shikat 6/6/30 penciled in as the match I wanted to learn more about before you pointed me in this direction. Reading your old Wrestler of the Year 1900-2000 thread, You wrote about that match
"Londos wins the NY World Title from Dick Shikat (June 6) when his bosses quit worrying about legitimate wrestlers and realize it's the money that counts. Londos establishes himself as the greatest draw in the history of the sport. Also becomes the first wrestler to be recognized by a national (well almost) organization the NBA. (No... boxing, not basketball)."

That jumped out at me when I was re-reading that post looking for matches for this project. And its funny that its another Dick Shikat match :)

What should I keep in mind for the 40s, 50s, and 60s?

We don't really have anyone involved that is a true historian (at least not by the standards of you guys here) and I want to make sure things get done right. We're going to take things slowly. If there are more than 10 inductees in the first year, I'll be surprised. So I want to make sure the right matches get in first. Especially from an era the community at large doesn't know much about. If we only see one US based match from the pre-WWF expansion, I want it to be the right match, not Rogers vs O'Connor because that's the one everyone saw or Lewis vs Stecher for 4 hours because its the 4 hour match. My hope is that people will see a match like Shikat vs O'Mahoney go in alongside Hogan vs Andre and become interested in learning more about old wrestling history. That's the point of the whole project.
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Steve Yohe



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2388
Location: Wonderful Montebello CA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan. 30, 1920 Joe Stecher defeated Earl Caddock for the WC in MSG drawing 10,000 & $80,000. One of the first super match to live up to it's billing. Lasted 2:05:30. Before Ken tell you, 40 minutes of it is on tape.

All the Londos vs Shikat matches in Philly are important. There were 4 of them.

I could go on for ever. A lot of the Gotch vs Jenkins matches. A lot of Stecher vs Lewis matches.

Yohe
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Steve Yohe



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2388
Location: Wonderful Montebello CA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stecher vs Pesek in 1926 in LA....and St Louis.---Yohe
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elliott



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is such great info. I really appreciate it.

What would you say is the most important Muldoon match?
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Ken Viewer



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliott wrote:
This is such great info. I really appreciate it.

What would you say is the most important Muldoon match?


To me, the finest film-footage of Muldoon is the one we have digitized motion-picture film of -- yes, there are talking pictures of him I found a few years ago.

And no, I didn't know about the Stecher-Caddock 1920 footage until decades after Steve did. It's resolution is awful, but the silent film's emulsion appears so well preserved that if there was any profit in it for commercial processors, it could be dramatically upgraded. But I have no interest in spending money on that project.

You know, after months of trying, I still cannot get access to post on your site or change my password on your board. And I am registered under the same name I use here.

Considering how much of the footage I found and Steve, Kit, Koji and I purchased licenses for that your site has swiped without even the courtesy of crediting me and the rest of our crew, or paying for licenses, I'm not a happy camper.

How about straightening the access situation out for me?

Thanks.

Ken
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elliott



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I first heard about and saw the Stecher vs Caddock footage as a random addition at the end of a tape on my very first tape trade forever ago:)

Ken as to your accessing PWO, I don't know anything about that. I just post and read stuff over there. I have as much control over moderating and account verification there as I do here. You'd want to contact Loss. Sorry you've had trouble.
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elliott



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should Dick Shikat be in the WON HOF? I'm a little surprised to see he's not in considering his name keeps showing up in these matches I need to learn more about for this project.
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Steve Yohe



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2388
Location: Wonderful Montebello CA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote about Shikat & the HOF at WC.--Yohe
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elliott



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We aren't even close to starting this thing, but assuming I'll have 10 votes, these are the 10 matches I'm most likely to vote for on the first ballot:
1. Frank Gotch vs George Hackenschmidt 04/03/08
2. Jim Londos vs Dick Shikat 06/06/30
3. Jim Londos vs Ed Lewis 09/20/34
4. Danno O'Mahoney vs Dick Shikat 03/21/36
5. El Santo vs Black Shadow (Mask vs Mask) 11/07/52
6. El Santo vs Blue Demon 09/27/53
7. Rikidozan vs Lou Thesz 10/06/57
8. Rikidozan vs The Destroyer 05/24/63
9. El Santo vs Perro Aguayo (Mask vs Hair) 10/03/75
10. Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant 03/27/87
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JAG



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 2082

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say the Wrestlemania I main event, Hogan-Andre II in Feb. 1988 on NBC drawing 33M viewers and Hogan-Macho at WM V, which is the most Vince drew on PPV until the Tyson Wrestlemania are all as viable to represent the Hogan era as Mania III.

And frankly he should get more than one match on the list.

Jagdip
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khawk20



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 221

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken Viewer wrote:


You know, after months of trying, I still cannot get access to post on your site or change my password on your board. And I am registered under the same name I use here.

Considering how much of the footage I found and Steve, Kit, Koji and I purchased licenses for that your site has swiped without even the courtesy of crediting me and the rest of our crew, or paying for licenses, I'm not a happy camper.

How about straightening the access situation out for me?

Thanks.

Ken


Now Ken, we discussed this a few months back after I emailed Loss over there, and you ended up declining to participate over there after the fix was completed, as memory serves.

Using elliott's thread to once again express your unhappiness at not getting footage credit is...not cool.

Do you want on the PWO board or not? You can definitely be an asset to these discussions, if you want to be.
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Ken Viewer



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khawk20, you are a nice guy and your memory is correct.

So, back then, I spent some time rethinking whether it was a board I should join (just in case you all started posting more about old-time wrestling, and so, with a little trouble with their "Captcha" feature, I joined.

But I never seemed to receive permission to post and couldn't figure out how to go about getting it. If you and/or Elliott have since helped with that, I appreciate it.

As for pointing out to them that I want a parade when footage I've uncovered and helped pay to acquire -- and then worked on convincing the owners to publicly post because it's no fun to me to have access to this old gold for just a few of us -- I feel justified in asking for some credit.

When I can remember my own name -- a rarer thing these days, I always share credit with colleagues Kit and Steve and, on the Chicago Russ-and- Sylvia-Davis hoard. Koji contributed an important sum of money.

You veterans at tape-exchanging (and or selling clear copies as Joe O does), trading, whatever, have your traditions and I have mine.

Since full access to the PWO board has now been provided, when it's warm here in the apartment, which it has been recently, I'll cruise their site for a month or so before posting anything. (I spent at least six months reading the WCMB before I posted there.)

I appreciate your comments and accurate memory. On cold nights here, I used to have over 1,500 newspaper/magazine clips with my name on them to keep me warm. Decades ago, one of the top officials at University of Texas at Austin asked me for a donation of my raw notes and clippings. I was happy to, eventually.

But he died and his successors weren't particularly interested; and I would never give the stuff to the New York Public Library, which sold its soul to some billionaire or other, and so I've tossed the notes and am about finished tossing the clippings.

So I have a long history of wanting my name attached to original work that I did or participated in. It may seem odd to you, but we newspaper people always worked cheap because we liked seeing our bylines on our work (when I became an editor, I no longer received any credits but received more money).

Hope this explains some of my feelings. Egomania? Premature senility? Parade-fever? Babylonian Swamp Fever? All of the above? You tell me.

Ken
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