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ESPN 30 for 30 aka ESPN Documentaries
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: ESPN 30 for 30 aka ESPN Documentaries Reply with quote

Unmatched: Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova

Debuts Tuesday. Chris was one of the key women who inspired a generation of girls I grew up with to take up sports. Martina to me is the greatest athlete of my lifetime, with a lifestory that has moved & inspired me for decades. I remain in awe of both all these years later.


John


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JAG



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking forward to this.

30 for 30 has easily been the best thing ESPN has ever done. That includes a few stinkers and ones I didn't care enough to watch.

Everyone should go out of their way to watch "Two Escobars."

Jagdip
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Iron Chad



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen on the Two Escobars, the OJ one was really cool for folks my age that remember that night being riveted to all the coverage. No Bias was great, albeit Lefty in it made my skin crawl. The dorks that invented rotisserie baseball was fun for a light-hearted one.

I've at least liked all of them except for the Levinson barfer about the Baltimore band and I haven't been able to finish the little league one because I find it a bit boring, but I thought it was about the kids from Louisville than won a few years ago and not the 1982 Washington squad.

I would've liked the USFL one to not have focused as much on Trump, but can't blame them since Trump is the only real memorable name behind the league these days. I was a real USFL fan because the Birmingham Stallions were my team, Birmingham didn't have any pro teams (except for the Tide *rimshot*) and I've got cool memories of my dad taking me to see Steve Young and Doug Flutie and Herchel Walker at Legion Field, while I cheered for Cliff Stoudt (who was a big get at the time because he had started for the Steelers and been OK) Joe Cribbs (I even cheered for the Barners that were Stallions) and Joey Jones who I loved at Alabama. They were *this close* their last two years, but couldn't get past the Philly/Baltimore Stars coached by Jim Mora. Don't even remember if the Stallions were mentioned, but no one remembers the conference runner-up in a second rate football league. I'd recommend the book The 3 Dollar Football League for anyone wanting a decent history of the USFL.

The focus on the Tampa Bay owner in 30 for 30 was nice since he might have been able to keep the league going (because he believed in the plan, like I did as a yout, of spring football, not a suicide mission of going head to head in the fall with the NFL, which Trump pushed for, since he wanted an NFL merger so he could get an NFL team since they had rejected all of Trumps attempts to get in the league) in spite of Trump had cancer not gotten him .
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here’s my thoughts so far on the lot of 30 for 30’s:

King’s Ransom (Gretzky story) – Directed by Peter Berg, who I am not a fan of since he tends to bastardize stories. Friday Night Lights (the book turned into a movie) was bastardized quite a bit by his uncle, the insufferable Buzz Bissinger, and then Berg almost went overboard with bastardizing it in the movie. Still though I like Friday Night Lights for the most part as a movie…very campy and clichéd, but I tend to have a soft spot for that stuff when it comes to sports movies. Kings Ransom reminded me a lot of the pro wrestling scene when the Oilers GM just could not admit that he made a mistake because of his ego and a good job about how it devastated Edmonton (and really Canada) and what it meant to LA. That being said, my big knock on King’s Ransom was that it failed to portray how bad of a trade it was because in the end, LA doesn’t care about hockey. It did when Gretzky was there..in the beginning. That gave way to the NHL’s foolish decision of thinking other warm weather places like Atlanta were dying for hockey and new hockey teams that the cities don’t give two shits about. But Berg makes it sound like it was still a great trade for LA. At the time it was, but I think from a bigger picture perspective it wasn’t and who really gives a shit. Overall a decent showing here, but not a must watch.

The Band That Wouldn’t Die – Directed by the Barry Levinson. I haven’t paid too much attention to Levinson’s work up until this documentary. He had another documentary on Politics and Hollywood called ‘Poliwood’ (IIRC) that was excellent as well. This, to me, was by far the best 30 for 30. Brilliant job of a story about loyalty, dedication and passion. It was easy to feel for subject matter at hand.

Small Potatos, Who Killed the USFL? – Directed by Mike Tollin. I got into sports heavily when I was very young. I used to memorize players and their stats and positions from reading their baseball or football cards starting at the age of 5. I was pretty young when the USFL came along, so I don’t remember the full scope of the league, but I remember really enjoying watching it. This did a really nice job of going over what happened. It took shots at Trump, but I think they were well deserved shots. My only knock is that they sort of skirted around the fact that the league screwed itself by expanding so much so soon, thus too many teams were going under and they needed Trump’s money. I think I can like just about any documentary that can point out how much of a buffoon that Trump really is about ½ of the time of his life.

Muhammad and Larry – directed by Albert Maysles. It’s funny because 30 for 30 starts off very promising and boxing films and documentaries seem like the easiest to make because so many of them are great. But this was a painful borefest. Perhaps it was trying to mirror the Holmes vs. Ali match where everybody knew what was coming and everybody didn’t want to see it, but it was going to happen whether we liked it or not.

Without Bias – I think this may have finally convinced Bill Simmons that Len Bias did indeed do coke, and a lot of it, well before he overdosed. I thought that this was merely okay. Nothing really new here, although for those who weren’t around when this happened it was IMO, beyond shocking. Cocaine was something we didn’t know a lot about other than it was bad and that so many people, particularly athletes were addicted to it. Then you have the big draft pick die from an overdose and you can’t help but question as to what type of impact cocaine will have on this country if a great athlete, with the world by the balls, will overdose on this stuff.

The Legend of Jimmy The Greek – Directed by Fritz Mitchell. I enjoyed this because of the subject matter. I didn’t know much about Jimmy the Greek, but I was always fond of him and you just don’t see these guys around anymore…especially on TV. It also nailed all of the facets of The Greek that I remembered, particularly his love for betting big on the underdog. And I thought it did a good job of explaining the entire issue that got him blackballed with Irv Cross saying he thinks to this day that Jimmy wasn’t a racist and others pointing out that Jimmy wasn’t a well educated man, but he was viewed as an expert so he felt compelled to talk (along with having too much booze). It’s too bad because people have done and said far worse and didn’t get blackballed like The Greek did. Good job here although I think those born after The Greek probably wouldn’t get this.

The U – Directed by Billy Corbin. I think the subject matter is there and it started off well explaining not only the rise of Miami’s football program, but the dramatic rise in Florida football period, particularly with minorities and how Florida football was changing the landscape. But then it became a full blow piece of shit promotional piece for Miami and Corbin came off like a complete fanboy. This reminded me a bit between the difference between the movies ‘Boys in the Hood’ and ‘Menace to Society.’ Boys in the Hood was a great movie that portrayed the struggles and the life of young black men growing up in one of the worst ghettos in the country. Menace to Society just wanted to glorify gang bangers. The U was more Menace to Society than Boys in the Hood. What was crazy was how they ripped into Butch Davis because he wouldn’t allow the players to act like assholes on the field which not only would’ve resulted in penalties, but possible suspensions. Whatever.

Winning Time (Reggie Miller vs. the Knicks) – Directed by Dan Klores. I don’t like Bill Simmons. I’ve dealt with him on a few occasions and I don’t like his personality and how he deals with people. And I don’t understand a lot of his popularity which tends to harp on the same subjects. Winning Time just came off as something that Simmons convinced to have done because I just don’t think it was that big of a story or that interesting of a subject. I think they did a solid job here with what they had to work with, but I think for the 30 for 30 concept this wasn’t worthy.

Guru of Go – Directed by Bill Coutourie. Here’s a more worthy 30 for 30 subject here. While not overly important to the scope of sports, it was a very interesting subject matter than sports fans of my generation knew about, but didn’t know all of the gritty details. Westhead has never come off well in his coaching career, but did come off very well here.

No Crossover (Allen Iverson) – Directed by Steve James. This was good, but a bit of a disappointment as James is from ‘Hoop Dreams’ fame, which is arguably the best sports documentary ever made. I can’t stand Iverson, mainly because he’s a former Georgetown Hoya and I’m a born and bred Syracuse fan. The things I’m not buying into is that James makes it appear that Iverson was beloved by both blacks and whites before the brawl and then it was a racial split after the brawl and he was arrested. I get the feeling that racial divide was probably apparent before the brawl and arrest. He also skirts around whether or not Iverson did it. This reminds me a bit of ‘The Wire’ though where James shows how the environment somebody like Iverson grows up in often leaves them with no choice to act violently and foolishly. Also, the part about Iverson’s high school teacher that stuck with him to make sure he graduated and ‘passed’ the SAT and how he still mentions her today was extremely touching. Like I said, decent job but a bit disappointing given James’ previous outstanding piece of work.

Silly Little Game (Fantasy Baseball) – Directed by Adam Kurland and Lucas Jansen. I saw that some people didn’t like it, but I thought this was great. The animation seemed fitting as well since it was a bit comical and the game and the way they acted in the beginning was comical. Talking about stuff like the Neil Allen pick, grilling the first female into the group like she was in an interrogation group. And I really dug that the inventor came up with the idea after having a dream about it. I’ve never played rotisserie baseball and only played Fantasy Football twice and didn’t enjoy it much, but I found this to be pretty fascinating. And I agree, these founders should be in the contributor baseball and football hall of fames because they put that much more interest into those games.

Run Ricky Run (Ricky Williams) – directed by Sean Pamphilon and Royce Toni. Another awesome piece of work. It wasn’t too long ago you would’ve thought that Ricky was a piece of shit posing as an eclectic personality. Watch this and you see a guy that had a lot of mental issues and he just took an unusual, but apparently successful way of getting over them. Very well done.

The 16th Man (South Africa Rugby) – After watching this I thought to myself ‘I really need to get back into watching more Rugby.’ Solid job here though. Nothing outstanding, but better than average.


Straight Outta LA – Directed by Ice Cube. This wasn’t bad and was better than ‘The U.’ But my problem with it is that 30 for 30 is essentially true stories about sports and this was sort of ½ gangster rap and ½ the Raiders in LA and never really tied together outside of gangster rappers liking the Raiders’ colors. And I’m not so certain that the Raiders in LA was all that big of a deal to anybody that wasn’t a Raiders fan and/or not living in California. I think there is some importance that there’s no NFL team in the 2nd largest market in the US, but even then the NFL has been wildly successful without a team in LA for close to 20 years. Like I said, I didn’t hate this but it’s probably what drives me nuts about directors that are about my age over somebody like Levinson…they are far more worried about being ‘hip’ and ‘cool’ over being ‘good.’ Much more style over substance. Cube takes a very hip and cool subject while Levinson takes a boring marching band and turns it into brilliant work.

June 17th, 1994, The Birth of Big Air, and The Two Escobars – I haven’t seen these, yet

Jordan Rides the Bus – Solid job here. This was more of a bizarre story than anything when it happened and it did show that Michael’s progress as a baseball player deserved more credit than it got and that Michael was very humble and good for baseball.

Little Big Men (Kirkland LL World Series Champions) – The only thing I thought was a bit overboard was that they tried to make this team look like the 1980 US Olympic Hockey Team and what they meant to the country, but to my recollection it wasn’t even close. Taiwan was a powerhouse in LL though and there’s a great story of how they come from behind to beat an Alaska team before they qualify for Williamsport. A lot of this makes me yearn for those days as the coaches were both longshoremen that took 3 months off from their job to coach youth baseball. Today it would be career suicide for somebody to do that with some sales job selling something like pharmaceuticals and they wind up working to 7pm at night. Very good story that was a bit sad and the main star Cody Webster went thru a lot after the WS victory, but good job here.

One Night In Vegas (Tupac and Tyson) – I haven’t seen it yet, but I get the fear it will be much like ‘Straight Outta LA’ where it’s too much about music and that doesn’t really tie together with sports. And I grew up a big fan of Tupac.

Unmatched – Brilliant job by the directors as we’ve seen this story before, but never from just Evert and Martina’s perspective only. I think Evert nailed it about Martina and why I personally revere her so much. She was so honest in her interviews. Not just about her sexuality, but with everything. Today’s athletes are either like Tiger or Jeter and say things like they just came out of a corporate PR training seminar or they are honest, but doing it for shock value and in reality for their own personal gain for future endeavors in TV or radio. But Martina was brutally honest with no agenda whatsoever other than to just to give her honest thoughts. I think what’s also great about Unmatched is that you almost see and feel the overwhelming respect and admiration both Martina and Evert have for each other. I don’t know how many relationships have ever been like that.

So I’ve liked 30 for 30 so far although I think HBO’s sports documentaries seem to be consistently better throughout. I don’t see anything on golf. If they wanted ideas, they could do one on Moe Norman or Mac O’Grady…two very eclectic personalities (Moe has passed away) and phenomenal abilities. Perhaps something on Karsten Manufacturing (Ping Golf Clubs) or the titanium driver craze.





YR
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jdw
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really nice rundown, Rich. Even in ones that we differ a little.

I don't think Without Bias is "great documentary film making", but it's pretty good "sports documentary film making". The genre over the years has largely been puff pieces, and even when dealing with controversy tends to gloss over if not outright white wash. Without Bias didn't white wash. It could have been harder hitting in being more confrentational with the parents and especially Lefty. But it didn't really need to: the parents came across enough of being in denial (which isn't uncommon), and Lefty didn't come off well.

The "he did coke for quite a while, and a lot of it before he OD'd" aspect was the make/break for me. Sure, those of us who lived through the 80s and were around that shit, knew at the time that Bias wasn't a coke virgin the night he OD'd. It also came out in the trial. But the national media did it's best to either duck the facts coming out at the trial, or gloss it over as quickly as possible. That the documentary didn't back away from it was key for me, and I think they handled it well.

The fanboy stuff on the Greatness Of Len Bias, which Simmons is as quilty of as anyone, is something I could have done without. But it wasn't unexpected.

John
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CFTV



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Below is the list of topics left in the 30 for 30 series. I liked your write up YR!

22 Steinbrenner
23 Terry Fox
24 Boston Red Sox/Yanks 04 Playoffs
25 Petrovic/Divac and the break up of Yugoslavia
26 Tim Richmond NASCAR driver and AIDS
27 Steve Bartman
28 Marion Jones and PED's
29 Southern Methodist University Football and the Death Penalty
30 The recruitment of Marcus Dupree
31 Charismatic's chase for the Tripe Crown
32 Johann Olav Koss Olympic Speed Skater starting the International Youth Sports Group, Right To Play
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JAG



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich beat me to this post, but here are my *adjective here* thoughts.

King’s Ransom (Gretzky story): I don't care for hockey, but I liked this a lot. Gretzky finally took his share of the blame, which made it more interesting.

The Band That Wouldn’t Die – I thought this was awful. Subject matter, the people involved, the fact that Baltimore ultimately stole the Browns from Cleveland made this a waste of time for me.

Small Potatos, Who Killed the USFL? – It's too Trump heavy, but without that it's just another USFL doc and not the best one.

Muhammad and Larry – There was a reason this footage went unused all those years. No one wants to see an obviously ill Ali being pummeled by Larry Holmes. The lack of introspection was galling.

Without Bias – Bias was just before my time, so I've never been wrapped up in his story. I do know that if you're hanging at a party and just pulling rails and drinking, it's not your first ride on the Cocaine train.

The Legend of Jimmy The Greek – This was terrific. What a strange way to reach fame and what a spectacular way to lose it. That interview is one of the five funniest things on tape.

The U – Loved the presentation and agree that the fanboy element hurt it. But the music and highlights clicked something fierce. The Microwave Dynasty was an amazing story and I'll always be a mark for a team that beats the shit out of you and tells you about it. They're already making a Part 2, called Return of the U about the Butch Davis era.

Winning Time (Reggie Miller vs. the Knicks) – I liked this far better then the original rivalry, because those games were usually awful. As an NBA fan, a look back at Reggie destroying the Knicks in unique ways was really fun.

Guru of Go – Eh.

No Crossover (Allen Iverson) – Rich is right about James not being able to admit his hometown was full of racial strife this trial just brought out. I'm sure Iverson spurning the private school didn't help his cause in that case, whereas what he did would have been swept under the table if he was winning for the right crowd.

Silly Little Game (Fantasy Baseball) – This was a joke. I like fantasy sports, but bitter guys complaining about not making a buck off it combined with the corny animation made this unwatchable.

Run Ricky Run (Ricky Williams) – I feel so sad watching Ricky play football now. Just a tortured soul who has to do something to satisfy everyone in his life but himself. Hope that's changed.

Straight Outta LA – This stunk. Ice Cube just decided to make an NWA documentary with the Raiders as a backdrop. Big letdown.

June 17th, 1994: A look back at O.J. that's actually brought down by adding unnecessary elements like Palmer's final round and the Rangers parade. The Finals game being interrupted could have been the hook, but very few people remember the other two events.

The Two Escobars – Best work of this series.

Jordan Rides the Bus – Solid in that they addressed everything (gambling suspension, someone murdering his father over gambling, et al), but it's still hard to believe Michael left the NBA just because his father wanted him to play baseball when he was a child. I wish the bulk of the story had been on how and why he left the NBA and came back rather then his subpar season in Double-A.

One Night In Vegas (Tupac and Tyson) – Horribly disappointing especially since they revealed a real friendship between the two. Pac was driving to an afterparty Tyson was throwing when he was shot. The interviews are fine enough, but the presentation is terrible. The two dudes rapping as the young Tyson and Pac were horrendous. Wish they had gone into how important Tyson was in culture in the 1980s instead of just focusing on the comeback.

Unmatched – Didn't know much about the rivalry, so everything was fresh to me. Liked how it was just their perspectives and the footage was mixed in perfectly.

Little Big Men, The 16th Man (South Africa Rugby) and The Birth of Big Air:

Skipped them.

Jagdip
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jdw
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really enjoyed Unmatched. 60 minutes of a smile on my face, and misty eyes more than once. Of course I'm a big sap. :) But these two really hit a spot with me, and always have. Agree with other's thoughts that the filmmakers took a really good POV in making this by just letting Chris and Martina talk, to each other and to the camera.

John
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jdw
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yakuza Rich wrote:
Unmatched – Brilliant job by the directors as we’ve seen this story before, but never from just Evert and Martina’s perspective only. I think Evert nailed it about Martina and why I personally revere her so much. She was so honest in her interviews. Not just about her sexuality, but with everything. Today’s athletes are either like Tiger or Jeter and say things like they just came out of a corporate PR training seminar or they are honest, but doing it for shock value and in reality for their own personal gain for future endeavors in TV or radio. But Martina was brutally honest with no agenda whatsoever other than to just to give her honest thoughts. I think what’s also great about Unmatched is that you almost see and feel the overwhelming respect and admiration both Martina and Evert have for each other. I don’t know how many relationships have ever been like that.


Yeah... toally agree about Martina's honesty and wearing so much emotion on her sleave, often infront of a crowd that wasn't pulling for her. It's very much what drew me to her in the 80s even when Chris had been the womens tennis player that I grew up watching and rooting for since the early-mid 70s. Too many people saw Martina as a "machine" because of her athletism and dominance, but I thought they were missing the point as she was the most human person on both tours. Even the act of pushing herself to get fit, in shape and dominance was a very human act of pushing oneself to be the best they can be after seeing that they hadn't been pushing themself enough. Truly amazing people, both of them.

John
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAG wrote:

The Band That Wouldn’t Die – I thought this was awful. Subject matter, the people involved, the fact that Baltimore ultimately stole the Browns from Cleveland made this a waste of time for me.


Your opinion is your opinion, but I just completely disagree. Especially when I look at this from the aspect of it being a pro football team. There are a lot of people who dream to be in the marching band of their favorite college team, but in pro football? Very few.

Yet this group had an unwavering passion for Colts football and to be a part of the band despite all of the craziness going on between Irsay and the city of Baltimore. How they needed to fund for a new stadium if they were ever going to get an NFL team and how the city was against it, but they decided to have the band march from their homes to downtown while playing the Colts fight song and how it got the politicians to change their mind. How they got screwed over in the bid for an expansion team as the NFL chose Jacksonville for some reason (big mistake). And they even 'apologized' for taking over the Browns.


Quote:
The U – Loved the presentation and agree that the fanboy element hurt it. But the music and highlights clicked something fierce. The Microwave Dynasty was an amazing story and I'll always be a mark for a team that beats the shit out of you and tells you about it. They're already making a Part 2, called Return of the U about the Butch Davis era.


Butch deserves more credit that they'll ever give him. He had to turn the program into a somewhat clean program and then left it over to Coker to become a powerhouse. Unfortunately for the U, Coker eventually turned it into a mid-level powerhouse.


Quote:
No Crossover (Allen Iverson) – Rich is right about James not being able to admit his hometown was full of racial strife this trial just brought out. I'm sure Iverson spurning the private school didn't help his cause in that case, whereas what he did would have been swept under the table if he was winning for the right crowd.


James did talk about racism in his hometown before the incident. There was a story about the time he was working at his dad's store and one of the co-workers used some serious racial slurs. I just think that when it came to Iverson, James made it look like he was beloved by everybody regardless of race until that incident. The incident started over a racial slur and I just get the feeling that it was prevalent with Iverson well before the bowling alley riot.


Quote:
Silly Little Game (Fantasy Baseball) – This was a joke. I like fantasy sports, but bitter guys complaining about not making a buck off it combined with the corny animation made this unwatchable.


I disagree with your sentiments here. Everyone of them seemed okay with the fact that they didn't make a buck off of the concept. Obviously one can ponder about the possibilities of how much they would've made, but I didn't sense any bitterness.

I do have a love for people that come up with brilliant ideas out of leftfield and then they morph into something well beyond their wildest dreams and seeing how they handle that. The inventor (can't remember his name) just came out with a good book on Prohibition that I've read some excerpts of. I need to get the entire thing.


Quote:
Run Ricky Run (Ricky Williams) – I feel so sad watching Ricky play football now. Just a tortured soul who has to do something to satisfy everyone in his life but himself. Hope that's changed.


Did you watch this one? The point of it was that Ricky is the healthiest he's ever been both mentally and physically and how it seemed really odd that he did what did, it was something that he needed to do in order to be in the good place he is in now. He's happily married, has his children in his life, he feels good and patched up his emotional scars. Maybe it's BS, but the film didn't make it out that way.






YR
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CFTV wrote:
Below is the list of topics left in the 30 for 30 series. I liked your write up YR!

22 Steinbrenner


I'm sure they'll make The Boss to be the greatest baseball owner that could have ever lived. I grew up right in the 80's Yankees with all of the Billy Martin firings and re-hirings, the Ed Fucking Shitbag Whitson era, the Ken Fucking Phelps trade, the Bronx Burners, etc.

I like Steinbrenner because as an MLB owner he wasn't all that wealthy compared to many of the other MLB owners. But, he was an aggressive and smart marketer of the team and that made the team a lot of money and I do believe he's the one owner in major pro North American sports that was willing to lose money in order to win it all...because he did. I can't say that about Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder.


Quote:
24 Boston Red Sox/Yanks 04 Playoffs


Oh good grief.

I always thought it was super dumb for Red Sox fans, who tend to be super dumb, to claim that it was the 'biggest choke ever' because it takes away from the accomplishment of their own team.

Here's some things I would love for them to point out:

1. I think it was either game 5 or game 6 (i think game 5) that Yankees backup 1B Tony Clark hit a ball that would've scored the go ahead run in the game with Rivera facing the bottom of the Red Sox lineup to win the game. Unfortunately the ball was hit down the right field side, took one bounce over the short wall for a ground rule double. If that doesn't go over the wall, the run scores and the Yanks win the series. I've seen only 2 other people ever mention that.

2. Fans can say what they want, but MLB really tried to stack the chips in the Red Sox's favor well before that as the Diamondbacks were determined to get Schilling over to the Red Sox due to their owner's hatred of the Yankees.

3. Game 7 was much more Yankees awful hitting than Schilling's great pitching. Schilling's velocity was not quite what it usually was and his location wasn't all that great either.

Quote:
25 Petrovic/Divac and the break up of Yugoslavia


I think this will be great.

Quote:
27 Steve Bartman


Maybe I'm a bit grumpy, but I always felt that what he did was stupid and I always felt if I was in that situation, because I know baseball, I would've steered as clear as I could from the ball. I really would have and for me it would have been a no brainer.

I get the feeling that this film will claim that everybody would've done the same thing and I just don't think that's true. However, he took way too much heat for the incident. I think it's time for him to come out and tell his story and I think Cubs fans really want that.

Quote:
29 Southern Methodist University Football and the Death Penalty


I'm very interested in this one. I didn't follow college football that much at this point, but this story was always interesting, but the gritty details were never really mentioned that much.














YR
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Iron Chad



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking forward to the SMU one the most since I was a huge college football fan growing up in the South, but only remember what little made network news, which was just bits. I also think Craig James is a blowhard a-hole who was a party to the death penalty, yet he's banging the "NCAA needs to get tough on cheaters" drum. I hope he's exposed as a fraud, but since the documentary is airing on the network that employs James, I'm not holding out any real hope James will be exposed, I bet Dickerson is given most of the blame if a player is blamed.
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JAG



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Ricky Williams is mostly playing football because the Dolphins stuck him with the bill when took off on them.

I hope his prescription is keeping him happy, because he's been dynamite on the field the past couple of years.

Like Tyson and numerous pro wrestlers, I fear Ricky will be a pathetic sight soon after retirement.

Jagdip
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jdw
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Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 17103

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike... he needed constant cash to fund the trainwreck of a life in the only fasion he knew how to live.

Wrestlers blow through their money, and wrestling is the only life they know. Getting out isn't easy.

I think Ricky might do better than most because he doesn't seem at this point to need a shitload of money to sustain a lavish lifestyle to keep him happy. Like you say, he probably wouldn't be playing football at this moment if he didn't need to. I also suspect that there's value to him on the pension side to continue playing. Each seaon played adds additional payout. He farted three seasons away. I don't think he needs much, relative to a lot of other players. But he seems to have his head together a bit more than in the past.

John
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAG wrote:
I think Ricky Williams is mostly playing football because the Dolphins stuck him with the bill when took off on them.

I hope his prescription is keeping him happy, because he's been dynamite on the field the past couple of years.


That was the point of the film. He's been playing great lately, even though he's very old by running back standards because he took the time off, got his mental and physical health on track. And he likes playing football now.

Again, that was the point of the entire film...Ricky's odd journey to get where he is in his life. Going from a physically beaten, mentally unstable, poor husband and father who was sick of football into pretty much the direct opposite of all of those things.

I think in the end the contract is forgiven in some sort of fashion. NFL pensions are about $325K a year (that's how OJ still lives a pretty good life despite the Goldman's taking all of his money). The Fins cannot do a whole lot about the contract because they can't touch his pension (it's basically federally protected...another reason why the Goldman's never got OJ's pension money).





YR
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