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Star Wars Spoilers Thread SPOILERS HERE ONLY
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:02 am    Post subject: Star Wars Spoilers Thread SPOILERS HERE ONLY Reply with quote

If you are going to discuss specifics about Force Awakens, put your spoilers here and don't ruin it for the rest of us.

I'll find a way to do the Vader choke, I swear I will!
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jdw
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote





Or perhaps:



:)
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All three would be acceptable. ;)
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you haven't see the movie, don't read any reviews or any type of Spoilers, It will kill the film for you.---Yohe
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jdw
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
If you haven't see the movie, don't read any reviews or any type of Spoilers, It will kill the film for you.---Yohe


Steve Yohe wrote:
IT WOULD BE A HUGE MISTAKE TO READ REVIEWS OR SPOILERS. So see it before people tell you about it. John will probably like it more that me.---Yohe


The regular reviews that went up a few days ago aren't giving up big spoilers.

On the other hand, there has been talk about the big spoilers for months. A lot of that has been people guessing, speculating, reading into the trailers in detail, etc. But it's likely that all of the potential big spoilers have been poked around at over the past few months if one has been reading. It's different from "I'm your father, Luke" coming out of left field in 1980.

Since there have been so many things talked about, it's unlikely to be a total surprise if you've been reading the stuff. The "surprise" is/will be which of the things ends up happening.

Just a few guesses:

* something major about one of the kids will be explained

That's Kylo, Rey or Finn. And they'll leave the major things about the rest which people have been speculating about for later movies.

i don't think it will be a ball buster for people to learn this one. The others will still be out there, though I suspect people will spend the next few years speculating on them just as they have for all three for months (years) already. There's not to much with them in that regard that could be more of a surprise (not really) that what's already been talked about.

* one of the old characters will bite it

Obi Wan went down in the first one, which was a surprise at the time. They'll do it here. Several have been talked about. Lots of people read the trailer a certain way, which people think points to one. I can see that, but have a vibe about another.

No need to spoil this one in the thread yet. I'm not going to see it until 12/26... though I suspect it will be impossible for me to avoid who it is until then.


* one of the major things people have talked about with an older character doesn't happen (different from the death thingy)

Steve thought this thingy was going to happen. I've argued with him it ain't happening in this one. The director and actor kind of teased around it to fan it some more.

I hate to say (not really) that I was right on this one, at least for this movie. I probably should have bet Steve a steak dinner on it, but I'm too nice at this point. Steve, we can talk about this specific one in the car on Saturday and you can tell me if I was right (which I was 100% certain that I would be). :)

If you don't know what I'm talking about, I think it was the only thing we argued about going into this movie, other than your grumpiness about the trailers and whether the movie would be any good. :)
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jdw
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, more largely non-spoilerish talk about the likely spoilers

jdw wrote:
* something major about one of the kids will be explained

That's Kylo, Rey or Finn. And they'll leave the major things about the rest which people have been speculating about for later movies.

i don't think it will be a ball buster for people to learn this one. The others will still be out there, though I suspect people will spend the next few years speculating on them just as they have for all three for months (years) already. There's not to much with them in that regard that could be more of a surprise (not really) that what's already been talked about.


Slightly more specific on this:

Kylo, Rey & Finn all appear from the trailers and/or promotional materials to be "adept" in the Force. Some more obvious in the sense of Kylo and his obsession with the Dark Side, but there's enough about Rey and Finn that people are probably right that they're adept as well.

There were exactly two folks adept in the Force at the end of Jedi: Luke & Leia. They happened to be the kids of someone else who was adept in the force: Yippy Skywalker / Darth Vader.

So obviously there's been a lot of speculation about the possible relations between Kylo, Rey & Finn and Luke & Leia. And if there aren't relations, then the speculation turned to how the three newbies come to be Force adept.

My guess just from basic plotting of a trilogy (and a number of other folks that I read over the past year): at least one of these will get explained in this first movie. In turn, one or more of them will be saved for later reveals / "big surprises" that really won't be as surprising as Darth being Luke's Pappy.


Quote:
* one of the old characters will bite it

Obi Wan went down in the first one, which was a surprise at the time. They'll do it here. Several have been talked about. Lots of people read the trailer a certain way, which people think points to one. I can see that, but have a vibe about another.

No need to spoil this one in the thread yet. I'm not going to see it until 12/26... though I suspect it will be impossible for me to avoid who it is until then.


This has centered around two of the three primary characters (Luke, Leia & Han) and one of the secondary characters (C-3PO, Chewie & R2).

The speculation on the secondary character based off the trailers and the health of the performer has been pretty compelling.

On the flip side, Obi Wan didn't feel like a secondary character when one was first watching the first movie, so one of the primary characters biting it for a dramatic and a storyline standpoint has always been credible speculation.

I've never read a specific one of the three primary old characters being mentioned in this speculation, so I'd be stunned of him/her bit it. The other two have... and I'm pretty certain which it would be if it's not the secondary character.

* * * * *

Other spoiler speculation that's gotten a lot of run:

* Big Heels turning into Jobber Heels getting killed off

There are three big-to-semi-big baddies: Kylo, Snoke & General Hux.

I think a lot of this is just from the bad taste of Darth Maul getting killed off so quickly, hence that Kylo would get killed off. I haven't really bought that this would happen - it felt like Disney and Star Wars Creative has more invested in Kylo than Lucas had in Maul.

Nor did it ever feel like Snoke would go down. You don't bring in Andy Serkis to play someone *above* Kylo and Hux only to kill him off in the first movie.

The only question to me was whether Hux is in the Peter Cushing role of disposable General/Admiral/Grand Moff who gets killed off at the end. Given the age of the actor, I have doubts that Hux will bite it. They would have cast someone older if they were going to kill him off, and saved a younger actor for a later film to slide into the Top General/Admiral/Grand Moff spot.

So I thought a lot of this speculation was just people being paranoid after experiencing the goofiness of Lucas the last time around. :)
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that hasn't changed is Strorm Troppers still not being able to shoot. We have cars today that drive themselves, I will bet that sometimes soon we will have guns that don't miss.

I don't remember who I said was dying guessing months ago. Wonder if I was right?

Here a spoiler that shouldn't be read:



It a remake.

Yohe
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the passing on of Jedi powers thru familys thing, because it was stated in movie #5 & #6 that the Jedi's couldn't have wifes or families. I would think that that means no sex. Guess that's why there are so few Jedi knights. Maybe the next movie will be a SPOTLIGHT type topic about the Jedi & little boys. Remember movie 4....what was going on there. And all those little cadets running around Jedi headquarters.

What about Vader not having a father with Jedi powers? Maybe they just made up the no sex rule for him because he was so ugly. Who would want a family of Vader's running around...and that's just what they got. Did his Penis get burnt off in the volcano too.

We need another movie to explain all these issues.--Yohe
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John---Time to stop speculating on movie #7 and get on to #8....because everyone in the world has seen this film by now (Sunday) but John Williams. And quit reading reviews and about the plot...or it will ruin the film when your in Washington. I know you can't because you want to be a head of everyone....but it's too late by now.----Yohe
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guren



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Best not to think about it. I know that's a problem for you... not thinking."
-- Steve Yohe
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:)

Also, everyone hasn't seen it. Lots of people skipped the crowds of the first weekend and will see it this week and next weekend.

As far as reviews, I've been reading them since I was 10. And pre-release speculation since 1978... for two years leading up to Empire coming out. Hasn't ruined moivies for me yet.
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Bob Morris



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw the film today. Loved it. Brought back the feel of the original trilogy. Some minor plot issues but I can live with it.

Also, Leia can feel The Force and she was never a Jedi. Somebody forgot about that. :)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leia isn't a full Jedi, but it's likely that Luke gave her some basic pointers on understanding the Force.

Anyway...

On the death: Han had always been the most likely given Ford's hate of the way things went down in Return of the Jedi, and spending decades talking about how he wished the character could have died in the movie. The was a lesser chance that Luke would have an Obi Wan moment of dying here. Chewie got a late run as a possibility given Meyhew's health, and how it would have been a nice heroic send off.

They handled Han's death well. A bit of foreshadowing, but didn't quite feeling like hitting one over the head with it even if one was looking for it as a possibility (as I was). In turn, people's reactions to it worked for me, be it Leia far away or how it tore up Chewie.

It also did an awesome job of getting Kylo over as an extremely bad person.

On killing off the Bad Guys: they did a good job of avoiding that. Kylo got over strong, and we know there's a lot more for him later. Snoke isn't dead. Hux isn't dead. All good to be developed later.

They explained one kid: Kylo. I like how they didn't keep hidden for long that he was Vader's grandson, and then Solo's kid. They probably made people thing that was the One Big Secret of the movie, and lulled them away from thinking someone would die, making the Han's death even more impactful for folks.

In turn, they left the origin of Rey and Finn for later. I suspect we all have a good vibe that Rey has Vader Blood in her. Cheetah thinks it's a lock she's another of Han & Leia's kids. I think the age range makes that impossible: Kylo strikes me as being 25-29, closer to 25 than later. Rey strikes me as in the 18-23 range, and 18 seems a bit young. They feel too close in age range for Ben/Kylo to have been clueless that he would have a sister before heading off to train with Uncle Luke. On the other hand, if she's *Luke's* daughter, one that he didn't talk about for whatever reason with anyone beyond Leia, that it didn't get to Ben/Kylo, and that at a certain point he "hid" her... that makes a bit of sense to me. That's where I would lay my money: she's Luke's daughter.

Finn got stolen from some family and basically enslaved to be raised to be a stormtrooper. Where his Force nature comes from... who knows. I don't think Luke was knocking off kids left and right. ;)

I'm not a fan of Planet Destroyers. It's too easy of a weapon, blows too much shit up, etc. It's yet another play on the Death Star, which now has been in #4, #6 and #7. Overkill on top of being too easy of a toy for the bad guys to use, and too much of a repeat on how it gets blow up. Would have preferred something else here, without blowing up a few planets as well.

Probably will think of other stuff later.
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw it a second time and I liked it better in another theater. I'm think like ***7/8.

#7 was a remake of #1 and I think the series will repeat the first 3 movie....kind of. They reintroduced everyone in #7. In #8, they'll introduce a new bunch of storylines and then tie it all together & rap it up in #9. #8 is the hard movie to make & if they screw that one up...they're screwed. You need new complicated storyline and problems. It needs to create new questions, & have a lot of new worlds & characters. They must know it already & be working on it.

We don't need any more gunfights with Stormtroopers or space battles. I'm not interested in them. The only Stormtroper I'd keep in Daniel Craig.

I like what they did with the villains, but they need to be strengthen in the next one. I like Kylo Ren, but he has emotional & character problems, that made him weak. In the next one, I think he'll be part of a cult of a number of guys in black, who will be training him & pushing him around. Snoke will come off stronger and I think the Emperor is still alive from #6.

It's going to take most of #8, but Luke will jump to the dark side & become the real villain for #9. He's on that mountain because his father went to the bad guys and Ford's kid, so he went off by himself, because he feels the turn coming. He will not turn back.

I liked Rey a lot. She made the movie for me & I liked her ever more on 2nd viewing. I could care less about Finn. I was hoping he'd die, but it seems he's only in a coma. I really liked the stuff going back & forth between Rey and Kylo. The fight & the whole thing. All these movies are going to be about her. I think the love affair with be between her and Kylo.

In #9, She'll get Kylo to come over to the good side & kill Luke in a sword fight. Luke dies on the dark side. Both Ray & Kylo will live and you can bet on a movie #10 down the line.

The only surprise in the film was Kylo being Hans Solo's son. Once they took that step, you knew Ford was going to get kill. After the father/son thing nothing that follow was a surprise. I think the surprises will be in the next film.

Finn has no Jedi powers, so I think his story has been told. Unless he Jackson's grandson or something. You know Sam Jackson needs to be in one of these films, because H. Ford is going to pass him on the all time box office list & retake #1. It's bullshit for all these characters being related or connected in a huge universe, but if we're suck with that...Billy D. Williams is just siting around waiting for a phone call. He may have gained weight, he is still an actor. Probably why Lando wasn't in #7. You can bet that Sam wants to be in the next one...maybe a dream thing with Ben & Vader & Yoda. Hey Sam we solved your problem....with Ford dead, you'd be on your way to #1 again. Maybe you can call Lucas & kiss some ass.

I liked Maz Kanata a lot. Hoping she is getting the Yoda spot. I didn't realize it was Lupita Nyonog'o until I got home.

Did you know the junk yard alien was Simmon Pegg?

General Hux will end up pushing Kylo around & be the boss.

The character Poe Dameron needs more of a part. He is a major actor & Star Wars bone to white males.

Why was Max Von Sydow wasted in the 1st 10 minutes? Is he coming back as a villain? He is too big of a name actor to die so soon. Other wise I don't see the reason.

I hate the idea that Rey is a Skywalk or Solo family member. There's too much of that father/son/daughter crap. (I know John eats it up). Let her have some story of her own that you can develop for movie #10. In movie #6 it was stated that Jedi could not marry or screw around. All those guys were not related. Jedi powers are not transferred thur family lines...I hope. A lot of those aliens Jedi's didn't look like any Skywalker.

Chewbacca was never going to die. They can put any guy in the suit. I think he stolid the movie.....whoever was in the suit.

All the above is theory & I don't know shit.---Steve Yohe
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
I like what they did with the villains, but they need to be strengthen in the next one. I like Kylo Ren, but he has emotional & character problems, that made him weak. In the next one, I think he'll be part of a cult of a number of guys in black, who will be training him & pushing him around.


He's emotional, and it actually on a certain level made him strong. He's not going to be pushed around by anyone on the Bad Guy side other than Snoke. On the good guy side, Rey and/or Luke will push him around.


Quote:
Snoke will come off stronger and I think the Emperor is still alive from #6.


Snoke will continue to be built. The Emperor is dead. He ain't coming back.


Quote:
It's going to take most of #8, but Luke will jump to the dark side & become the real villain for #9. He's on that mountain because his father went to the bad guys and Ford's kid, so he went off by himself, because he feels the turn coming. He will not turn back.


He's not going bad. You thought he was going bad in this movie, and we wrong. He's not ever "going and staying" bad. If they ever turned him bad, it would just be him working to eventually turn back face to take out Snoke. But he's not even going to do that as it's not like they're trying to Russo Book this thing.

Quote:
I liked Rey a lot. She made the movie for me & I liked her ever more on 2nd viewing. I could care less about Finn. I was hoping he'd die, but it seems he's only in a coma. I really liked the stuff going back & forth between Rey and Kylo. The fight & the whole thing. All these movies are going to be about her. I think the love affair with be between her and Kylo.


Rey and Kylo are related. They aren't going to have a love affair. She's either his cousin (Luke's daughter) or his sister (another kid of Leia and Han). I think she's Luke's kid, Cheetah thinks Han & Leia's kid. I tend to think the age difference is too close for her to be Kylo's sister and Kylo not know it. But Luke's kid... they could out an interesting story on how Kylo wouldn't know.

Quote:
In #9, She'll get Kylo to come over to the good side & kill Luke in a sword fight. Luke dies on the dark side. Both Ray & Kylo will live and you can bet on a movie #10 down the line.


Kylo is never going good. Killing Han is something he can never come back from. SW Fans will never forgive that, and Star Wars Creative knows it. It's basically flipping the bird at all of Han's fans, which is pretty much everyone who has ever watched the original movies. Kylo is bad, and he's never coming back.

They ain't killing Luke. Luke is likely aimed at Snoke, while Rey is aimed at Kylo. Whether Luke survives #9 or not... who knows. He may still play the Obi Wan role of sacrificing himself. But on some level, SW Creative probably knows that killing off Han was enough, and that SW Fans would like to see Luke & Leia get through the movies alive. Doesn't mean they'll do it, but suspect they aren't going to let Luke go down unless it's super heroic.

Quote:
The only surprise in the film was Kylo being Hans Solo's son. Once they took that step, you knew Ford was going to get kill. After the father/son thing nothing that follow was a surprise. I think the surprises will be in the next film.


The crowd reaction in the theater, and looking around online, was all aimed towards Han dying. People always seemed to know that Kylo was related to someone, be it Luke or Leia/Han. People were truly surprised that you bring back Han to kill him off.


Quote:
Finn has no Jedi powers, so I think his story has been told.


There remains some question on how he was able to easily use the light saber, which only Jedi can, and how he wasn't instantly wiped out by Kylo but instead could go toe to toe with him for a while before falling (and not getting chopped up in the process). Most people who follow the shit hardcore think that they were giving major hints that he's got some Jedi juice in him, but that he has zero training like Kylo and (everyone suspects) young Rey have. So he's adept, but far closer to Luke when he first came across Obi Wan (no training) than Kylo (loads of training) or Rey (likely some minor training she can't recall from Luke). Luke was able to turn on the Saber even before he had training.

Whether he's someone major's kid, who knows. There's some spec out there on whose kid he might be, but it's far more thin at this stage than who Kylo and Rey were heading into #7.

Quote:
Unless he Jackson's grandson or something. You know Sam Jackson needs to be in one of these films, because H. Ford is going to pass him on the all time box office list & retake #1.


Jackson is dead. If he appears, it will be as one of those Ghost Jedi. We got a taste of Obi Wan's voice in the Dream Sequence, which was a combo of Sir Alec's voice ("Rey" pulled form him saying "Afraid") and Ewan for the rest. We may get some other tastes. I don't think the folks making these want to go overboard with actually appearances of dead people rather than using their voices from time to time.


Quote:
It's bullshit for all these characters being related or connected in a huge universe,


It's pretty standard SciFi/Fantasy, just like in many forms of Lit. Family connections, who is this mystery character, etc. On some level, the sage is about the Skywalkers being entwined with the fate of the Galaxy. Just because 1-3 sucked doesn't mean that it hasn't been a (perhaps The) major theme of the movies. So why wouldn't it be part of 7-9?

Quote:
but if we're suck with that...Billy D. Williams is just siting around waiting for a phone call. He may have gained weight, he is still an actor. Probably why Lando wasn't in #7.


Billy has been involved in Star Wars Rebels as Lando in a reoccurring role, which is still airing. That means he's in good relations with Disney. It wouldn't be too surprising if he turned up in #8 or #9.

The thing is, Lando doesn't have Jedi juice in him. So how he would tie into Finn having Jedi juice... not clear.

Quote:
General Hux will end up pushing Kylo around & be the boss.


Snoke is the boss. Kylo isn't jobbing to Hux.

Quote:
The character Poe Dameron needs more of a part.


He's the Han of this series. He was going to get killed off, then they figured out what they had and kept him alive.

Quote:
Why was Max Von Sydow wasted in the 1st 10 minutes? Is he coming back as a villain? He is too big of a name actor to die so soon. Other wise I don't see the reason.


He's not coming back as a bad guy. He's a babyface, and trusted by Leia and Luke. He was on a desert planet where Rey was living for years. There's a reason for that. Of course he'll come back in a flash back.

Quote:
I hate the idea that Rey is a Skywalk or Solo family member. There's too much of that father/son/daughter crap. (I know John eats it up). Let her have some story of her own that you can develop for movie #10.


Her story and background will be developed in #7-9. They haven't even begun to think about #10 until they figure out what's working in this batch. They're thought out the basics already of who she is for #7-9. JJ knows who she is, laid the foundation for it, and it will be gotten to in the next two.

Quote:
In movie #6 it was stated that Jedi could not marry or screw around. All those guys were not related. Jedi powers are not transferred thur family lines...I hope.


Watch the original one. Obi Wan tells Luke that his father was a Jedi. Gives him his dad's light saber. Starts some basic training with Luke, and it's clearly gotten across that the Force flows in Luke.

From the very first movie, it's clear that Jedi juice can flow through families. Everyone paying attention from the first movie knows it.

Give it up. You're wrong.

Quote:
Chewbacca was never going to die. They can put any guy in the suit. I think he stolid the movie.....whoever was in the suit.


Wouldn't be surprised either way if he bites the farm or not in one of the movies.
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