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AEW 'Double or Nothing' Thoughts
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 718

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject: AEW 'Double or Nothing' Thoughts Reply with quote

I first started watching wrestling when I was 6 years old back when the WWWF was still in place and making the transition to the WWF. A little later I fell in love with World Class as we were able to access that thru 'The Church Channel' as my friend Rob and I would refer to it. Shortly after, it became a little bit of Mid-South with a lot of Crockett. To me, Crockett in its prime with Dusty book (in his prime as well) was the best wrestling promotion I had ever watched.

Then along came some New Japan while I still apologized for Bill Watts' run in WCW. Then my 'favorite' promotion, ECW...came along. I've long wrestled with the notion that ECW was likely my favorite promotion by proxy of it being my favorite time of my life during my college years. That coincided with another one of my favorites...1990's All Japan.

And while I had lost interest in the WWF around 1988-ish, there were parts of The Attitude Era that I have to concede were just really darn good. It was really fun to see two guys in Austin and Foley, both of whom I had met prior to their WWF/E runs get their breaks and maximize their potential while turning the industry on its ear.

I was never the biggest indy wrestling fan. Maybe it was being turned off by sleezy promoters like Dennis Corralluzzo who made Roland Alexander look like a 1000% legit businessman. And I didn't mind Roland so much and that allowed me to really enjoy those APW years with Modest, Morgan, Maxx Justice, Robert Thompson, the late Erin O'Grady, Vic Grimes, Tony Jones, etc.

Then it eventually turned over to the precursor to Pro Wrestling Guerilla with Revolution Pro which was one of the biggest inspirations to what we see today with guys like Super Dragon, Ultra TARO, Jr., Rising Son, etc. leading fast, hard-hitting action. After that I started to watch more for individual wrestlers like Chris Hero, CM Punk, etc.

I don't know where it began, but along the way I just stopped watching wrestling altogether. A sense of knowing that TNA was fucked before it actually became fucked. And knowing that the WWE would just continue to regress as long as Vince and Stephanie had the majority of the input.

Occasionally, I will flip on RAW and it's just literally unwatchable. And it amazes me how great of a marketer Vince is because from what I've seen out of the WWE product the last 8 years resembles the same idiotic mistakes and foolish thinking that brought down WCW...but, somehow Vince has convinced the WWE Universe that it's something different.

However, that's changed in the recent couple of years. The fans are just about fed up with the WWE product and they have gone so far down on so many rabbit holes that I think they have forgotten what makes for actual compelling television and I don't know if they will ever get back to it.

In the meantime, All Elite Wrestling has formed and they brought in their first official event with Double or Nothing.

I was never impressed with Cody Rhodes in the WWE. He just didn't seem to have that 'It Factor' and was not overly exciting in the ring. But, I have to give him credit in not only rejuvenating his own career, but he's got incredible leadership skills to bring AEW into a success.

TNA never had that. Jerry Jarrett was thought to be too past his prime and too many wrestlers were cool on the idea of Jeff Jarrett running the company, particularly with Russo writing the show. As much as I love Jim Cornette, too many would think his style of wrestling was irrelevant. Dixie Carter was a joke and Hogan and Bischoff were there mostly to get a payday.

I often wondered about if there would be another revolution in pro wrestling or if the industry would fall in the same way Roller Derby fell decades ago. I kept hearing great things about the indie scene and actually attended a PWG show about a year ago. And I had watched some New Japan stuff...but I didn't really believe that the industry outside of the WWE was as strong as some fans were telling me.

But then they sold out Chicago with 10,000 fans for All In. That signified to me that unlike Roller Derby, there is some unsatiable need for pro wrestling in this country. I would have thought that UFC would have played a major role in wrestling's demise...but oddly enough even the networks are now admitting to UFC not being as family friendly as they thought and now wrestling...of all things...being desirable because it brings in the family (as noted by the WWE's massive deal with FOX).

But that deal with FOX came at a price for the fans. The WWE just became worse and out of the few instances I watch either RAW or Smackdown the central theme is just how uninspired the show is. The production, while world class in terms of technology, is uninspired. The writing is woefully uninspired, so are the workers and thus the fans and uninspired to get into the show.

This to me is always going to be the problem with the WWE...Vince wants to basically 'mass produce' the product and you really can't mass produce something that has some semblance of artistic attributes to it. Just like you can't mass produce hit songs, television shows, movies, etc.

I figured that if there was going to ever be a revolution in wrestling again it would take for the WWE to just about hit rock bottom. But the bigger issue was finding the right people to understand Wrestling Booking 101, but have a their hand on the pulse of the modern wrestling fan all the while not hot shotting the product.

I think step 1 is complete. The fans are sick of Vince and the WWE. And with the Khan family financing AEW, they have hit a big hurdle. But the question becomes if they have the right people in place to make the product worth watching and having the right amount of patience. I think they have a real leader in Cody Rhodes, but it will take more than just 1 man to get this thing over.



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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched some of the pre-show footage. The big thing that is lacking in today's wrestling is that they have gone way too anti-kayfabe. Fans know that wrestling is fake, but the more elements that that they start to believe are real or possibly real...the more they tend to buy into the product.

I'm really tired of watching wrestlers go out of their way to tell you that it's just a work. I mean...could you imagine Phil Leotardo being shot and then ran over by his own SUV and then Frank Vincent getting up and congratulating the other actors for such a great scene?

And that's what I liked about this pre-show production...it tied on it being real. Even the little things like the Young Bucks talking about being rusty and showing training footage and one of the Young Bucks (sorry, I can't tell them apart) stumbling on the ropes...add to the suspense.

I didn't watch much of the Battle Royale because it came off as very indie and fairly stupid. This is something that AEW really has to watch out for...having too indie of a feel. The product has to be different from the WWE, but if it feels really indie it's going to show up in the ratings when they go to TNT.

The commentators were JR, Excalibur and Alex Marvez. I think they did a solid job overall. I like Marvez, but they really don't need him there because 3's a crowd. Excalibur is really excellent. Yeah, I know him wearing the mask is kind of an indie move, but his commentating isn't indie at all and it's just downright fantastic.

I heard people tweet that JR was 'rusty.' Probably one person tweeted that and the rest aped off that tweet because they can't think critically and say something oiriginal. I thought JR was fine but he didn't seem to do much homework here. And that's why Excalibur shined...he knew virtually each wrestler, what they do and how to call it. Maybe JR wanted to wing it to give it a fresh feel.

I do know there were rumors of JR wanting to bring in Lawler. I'm not a fan of Lawler's commentary, but I just don't see it working here and I think the JR and Excalibur team would work just fine.

The production was impressive. But the more important facet is that it wasn't 'too good.' I hate that high level production that looks like 'American Gladiators' type of production. Yes, the technology is tops, but it lacks any sense of organic feel and inspiration to it, kinda like the production you would see when watching American Gladiators. But here the production was there to make the viewers feel the Las Vegas crowd while looking like a major league type of organization.


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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SCU vs. The Stronghearts

This was a 6-man spotfest, but it worked quite well here. Mainly because it wasn't 'Wrestler A hits a move on Wrestler B, then wrestler C hits a move on Wrestler A and then Wrestler D hits a move on Wrestler C...rinse and repeat.'

I'm still amazed how well Chris Daniels and Frankie Kazarian move in the ring and this had a ton of near falls. Usually this would be overkill given it's the first match of the night, but here it worked well.

SCU did a promo on YouTube afterward and Kaz and Daniels were really good. Scorpio Sky had a good promo conjured up in his head, but his execution was lacking.

I'm not sure what the long term plans are for SCU. I know that AEW really wants to get tag team wrestling back intot he forefront which I think is a good idea because as many things they can do that are opposite of how Vince operates is likely a good idea. But, if you go with 6 man belts that may take the shine away from the tag belts.

My idea would be to have 6 man belts, but make them as a stepping stone for your wrestlers to go to the tag belts which can be a stepping stone for some wrestlers to go to the world title status.


Britt Baker, Nyla Rose, Smylie Kylie and Awesome Kong

Brandi Rhodes interrupted the other girls to bring out Awesome Kong. It was kind of a heel type promo from Brandi and AEW needs to be careful about that. The last thing AEW needs is a 'heel authority figure' and given Cody and Brandy's status with the company this almost came off like a heel authority figure.

And Kong looked like shit. Spinning back fists were bad. Threw a kick that showed more daylight than an Alaskan Summer Day. She was the one that looked really rusty. The other girls were fine. Great spot with a super kick from Baker on Kylie were Kyle's bandana went flying up in the air.

I'm not the biggest fan of women's wrestling and Kong was poor here and some of the way this was booked wasn't that good, but this was still entertaining.

Whoever was the female in the announcing booth....never have her announce again. Flat out dreadful.


Shida, Mizunami's vs. Kong/Sakazaki/Sakura

I thought this was an ill-advised booking given that you just had a 6-man tag and a 4-way dance. I can appreciate giving Joshi the chance to shine on a big stage, but it was a little too much of the same style of stuff and they weren't on at all.


Cody vs. Dustin

This was certainly a tribute to Dusty as Dustin ended up getting near the Muta Scale with a gusher here. I'll say one thing about Dusty as even though I wasn't a big fan of him a wrestler, he was one perhaps the best I've ever seen at wrestling 'main event style.'

Dustin and Cody don't exactly have Dusty's ability to wrestle a main-event style match, but this wasn't the main event.

There was a well executed spot where Brandy interfered and Earl Hebner ejected her. This is nothing new in pro wrestling, but the execution was just right that it made for an arc in the story of the match.

They teased a lot of the typical Goldust spots and went elsewhere which was nice. And the ending with Cody asking Dustin to be his partner was executed as well as you can...to the point where even I teared up a little watching it because it was so emotional.


Introduction of the AEW belt

I liked the idea of this, particularly with Bret Hart, who sorta represents what AEW fans would look for in a champion, presenting the belt.

But, this got a bit too clusterfuck-ish and too 'schmozzy' with the introduction of MJF. They are really banking a lot on Adam Page, but he's so small I wonder how well that will translate when AEW is on TNT.

I think this was weakly booked and they didn't get the main point across...the introducution of the AEW belt.


Young Bucks vs. Lucha Brothers

Good god this was really really good if you like a tornado style tag match. The Young Bucks are not the Midnight Express in terms of greatness, but they do make for great TV if you don't mind the 1 million superkicks (which I don't...they are small guys and their superkicks are not going to be knockout kicks).

This was wild and where both teams really sold it well was wondering what it would take to beat the other team.


Chris Jericho vs. Kenny Omega

This didn't quite live up to the match they had in NJPW, but it was pretty sound. Jericho could use to shed some weight, but between his wrestling and his knowledge of how to get over he works well here.

Omega doesn't work classical Main Event style despite having so many main event bouts. His style kinda reminds me more of watching Rey vs. Eddie at Halloween Havoc 97. Extremely fast paced with a lot of spots, but they are largely plausible and unlike say...SCU...he changes the tempo enough to allow for some seliing.

Jericho has surprised me with how well he can hang with Omega. Jericho goes over which is sorta expected because he had a lot more to lose making the jump to AEW. I think this is where we'll see how good the booking is as they'll need to work to make Omega strong again. If they don't, then they fail a basic element of good booking.

After the match, John Moxley (aka Dean Ambrose) came out and attacked Jericho, the ref and then Omega. He was MEGA over. And then they did a spot where Moxley hit the snap double arm DDT on Omega on top of one of hte poker chips to end the show.

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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall, the show was really good. It felt like a PWG show but on a far bigger stage and with more angles. But the angles were similar to what PWG would do as they were fairly simple instead of these ridiculously over-the-top angles that the WWE likes to run.

I think this PPV would probably have to be compared to ECW's Barely Legal PPV in terms of its importance. I think this was much stronger than Barely LEgal and I'm not saying that with the benefit of hindsight or the advancement of pro wrestling performance over the years. It was just much stronger front top-to-bottom. And unlike ECW in '97, the AEW wrestlers are staying with the promotion for at least the immediate future.

The crowd was incredibly into it. It was weird to see in a sense because it was like the crowd and the wrestlers had just been put out on parole. Even guys like Christopher Daniels, who has never really worked for the WWE, had that 'finally, I broke out of prison' look to him because he no longer had to deal with promoters that didn't know what they were doing.

Having said all of that, AEW has a LONG way to go. Going from PPV to TV is a completely different animal. And trying to sustain success for say 7 years is another animal. Furthermore, as much money as the Khan's have they will likely want to see some return on investment down the road.

And finally, I wouldn't expect things to go smoothly with TNT. This is the same station that couldn't wait to get rid of WCW, even when WCW was doing well. And while I don't buy into the theory that everybody at Turner was embarrassed to have wrestling on their network...having lived in Atlanta and getting to meet some of the Turner people...there were some legitimately disliked having wrestling on their network.

This is the same network that had Standards and Practices hound WCW (sometimes for good reason, but many times for not) week after week. Maybe that changes this time around. Maybe this generation of execs sees the value of a high ratings wrestling program. Maybe they understand that the Khan family could possibly take the program elsewhere. But I would say the odds are 50/50 at best.

I didn't see a lot of big negatives, just some more minor tweaks. Personally, I don't get The Elite vignettes and I think they need to be careful with them otherwise they'll look too much like WWE. Just like the interruptions from a wrestler where he so conveniently has his entrance music played and he comes out with a microphone. While MJF did a solid job on the mic of holding the audience's attention, it was still a little too WWE-ish and the entire thing just ended up in a weird clusterfuck.

They also need to keep their stuff in the ring. New Japan does this well and the fans still love the work. Nowadays in the WWE...the only really good matches are highspot ladder fests that eventually become impossible to top. That's why I get a little nervous with Moxley being added to the roster and then hitting the double arm DDT on Omega on top of the poker chip. AEW will really have to work to not give into temptation of having these incredible high spot garbage matches in order to give themselves room to work and not kill themselves.

AEW also signed 62 wrestlers. I'm guessing they signed some loose deals with most wrestlers where they weren't being paid full-year contracts and the wrestlers could work elsewhere. AT least I hope. Otherwise they'll never return a profit with that many wrestlers on the roster.

Finally, the key to sustaining a successful promotion is to constantly bring in a new influx of talent.

I really don't think the traditional training system works all that well. Too foten the wrestlers just look like, wrestle like and talk lime each other. I think they need to follow the NJPW format of training wrestlers and then paying them while allowing them to wrestle certain indies, Mexico, Europe and Japan. And then bring the wrestler back when they feel he/she is ready to be on the roster.

But...so far, so good for the promotion. They seemingly have some very sharp people that know wrestling working for them. They have a leader in Cody and a guy like Jim Ross to help with the behind the scenes stuff. It's passed the smell test in terms of the boys just looking for a payday and working the money mark. Now, they just have to continue to stick to the plan.





YR
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corrado



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always read and hear from people that the WWE will magically recover when HHH takes over. And that could be true. But I still don't trust him a little. The fact that he could be the savior of the WWE after all these years of "I'm not going over" etc. And Don't forget he kind of instigated a lot of this, with his "pissant company" line from the WWE HOF, and a couple more jabs from that same event. Which is why you saw that Cody sledgehammer spot. altho I doubt with HHH in charge, you will see the 1st hour of RAW have next to no matches, like last night. Brings back flashbacks of 1999 Nitro. The Kevin Nash booked ones where there was 0 wrestling in hour 1. Which also had a very deep roster.

The Joshi match was Kenny Omega's idea. He's worked with a lot of them in Japan. At least they're trying different things like Joshi and the OWE guys.

I think Page is going to be their big "homegrown" babyface. I don't expect him to win the title immadetely. But he'll be like Gargano of NXT. When he finally wins the title, it'll be a big moment for sure. A Conquering the hurdles type deal.

Yeah, Cody/Dustin was amazing. I don't think Dustin had a big match like that since that angle with the Shield and Dusty Rhodes a while ago. Stunning how everything was well-done and well-booked. Brandi and Hebner were fine here too.

I think they're really going to make tag-team wrestling a big deal here. They have so many tag-teams from the main eventers to all the other guys. One of the announcers made a perhaps trollish line, saying "Tag team wrestling will be having a revival here" referencing one of the tag-teams who could be appearing here.

I think the Women's division will get a boost or two if certain WWE wrestlers will somehow be let out of their contract. I do think Kylie Rae will be the breakout star of AEW. She's their Bayley. A better-booked version of Bayley. But they're pushing for Britt Baker to be their star. They're really going to drive home the dentist job she has.

MJF is great too. Perhaps their top heel. I enjoyed Bret Hart legit chuckling when he made that fan joke. I believe that was supposed to be Ric Flair presenting the AEW title but because of his health problems, he was unable to.

Jericho's been holding his own with the NJPW crew for a while. So its not much of a surprise that he can still have a very good match. He is going to probably the 1st AEW champ so he is going to have a lot of main event matches.

Moxley was great at the end. He finally has a chance to be on his own and cut those indie promos that he never could in the WWE. Those were amazing, and between AEW and NJPW, he gets a chance to finally have the freedom to be himself.

I do think we'll get the NJPW being directly involved once the ROH deal runs out. After the disasterous ROH portion of the G-1 Supercard in MSG, hopefully the two companies have more of a role together.

I do have to say JR was more involved and enjoyable here, than in recent years. His NJPW role for example. Its nice to hear JR be JR again, after everything he's been through the past few years.

So there's a lot fo work to be done but I know they'll continue the momentum they had with Double or Nothing.
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the big question is if HHH can turn the company around, particularly since NXT's hottest period was when, ironically, Dusty was a major role in creative and wrestler development. And Steph will still be around. She reminds me a lot of Dixie Carter, getting undeserved high praise because 'she's a woman in a man's industry.' It's just that she's not a complete buffoon like Dixie was/is. But, she's been ratings death and my guess is that she'll always push for the heel authority figure role which has been so played out (and she wasn't good at it to begin with) just to satisfy her ego.

The 4-way dance with the ladies and then the Joshi match wasn't dreadful. I'm not a fan of women's wrestling in general, but this wasn't terrible and I don't expect any promotion to roll 6's on every segment. And this was more of a lack of execution being the problem than a bad idea.

Russo is tweeting that WWE and AEW are in cahoots and we're all being worked. I would give that theory credence if AEW was being financed by a smaller investor and well...if it wasn't Russo saying it.

But this isn't even 10 years ago. This is a quality business opportunity for the Khan's, who have more money than the McMahon's and there's no reason for them to share with anybody. In fact, the FOX TV deal with WWE likely got the Khan's as seeing this as a viable opportunity which is quite ironic.

I just wonder if they can keep the momentum going when they are out of surprise appearances from disgruntled WWE wrestlers and when the fans start to find the guys like the Young Bucks, Cody and Omega as stale due to overexposure. It can be done, but time and time again promotions don't seem to learn from others mistakes.







YR
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading about AEW today in the WON, I was impressed with there idea of having wins & losses mean something. Not beating another promotion's world champ was nice. And not having title change hands in three ways or bullshit like that really sounded wonderful.

But I can't see them surviving with just big shows, with fans flying in, It isn't going to last. There are going to need a lot more stars. I can't see how they are going to do a weekly TV show. That has to stink.

I think they need to use the AJW system & the old Lucha system. Base the promotion on teams of 5 guys....and mostly do 4 man...and 6 man tag matches. And keep singles and title matches special. And show there big matches on the TV show...like in Japan. That's the only system that could work....if I understand what I read today. This way you got the major stars wrestling each other each week, while saving them from doing jobs in singles. Only have 6 title matches a year....and make them 2/3 falls. In America, it would be new to fans.

My feeling are that this AJW has damaged NJW. I'm not that interested in the Japanese stuff now they have broken up. They should be doing cross promotion cards. Work together.

At this point the WWE can just buy off three guys & it would kill AJW.--Yohe
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Yohe on the format being more like Japan and Lucha with the factions and the 6, 8 and even 10 man tags. I think itís probably best to do the Japanese method of doing Tours instead of wrestling every single week. It would make the promotion more appealing to the wrestlers since the workload would be less and you could get enough time off so wrestlers donít become so stale.

I would imagine that AEW and NJPW will find a way to work together as I donít think the wrestlers left on bad terms. NJPW will still likely try to penetrate the North American market and AEW could always use NJPW to help train/build their younger wrestlers. Itís why Tough Enough and bringing in guys fresh into the WWE Training Center doesnít workÖthey canít get a well rounded experience before they make their debut in NXT and all they know is the WWE style of wrestling.

To me, thatís the key in all of thisÖbeing able to create *new* stars once guys like the Young Bucks, Cody, Omega, etc. need to step aside.




YR
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AEW's next big show, All Out sold out in 15 minutes. This will be at the Rosemont in Chicago, again...where they held their first event, All In. All In sold out in 30 minutes, so to add upon the sellout, they are selling out quicker than they have before.

It will be interesting to see what the buyrates for All Out will be. Jim Cornette did give Double or Nothing some praise, but really ripped into a lot of it. I tend to agree with his points, but I didn't catch the pre-show Battle Royal and other match before the PPV. And I think if I had, that would have soured me because I watched the pre-show later on and it was pretty much garbage.

The live crowd didn't see that, so I wonder if it will have an impact on the television viewing crowd.

I think the millenial based crowd likes irony and silliness to a degree, but I think it's hard to develop genuine superstars that crossover to more mainstream stuff when you have the silliness that the Battle Royale had.






YR
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every independent wrestling show I've gone to over the last few years has a battle royal. They don't seem to understand that fans hate battle royals. They suck. If a company want to be major league... dump the battle royals.---Yohe
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Yakuza Rich



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
Every independent wrestling show I've gone to over the last few years has a battle royal. They don't seem to understand that fans hate battle royals. They suck. If a company want to be major league... dump the battle royals.---Yohe


I agree. I like the Royal Rumble concept, but it doesn't work unless you're a promotion that runs week in and week out so you can develop storylines between wrestlers.

But the AEW Battle Royale was stupid. They really like a wrestler named Joey Janela. In the Battle Royale they had a wrestler take a lit cigarette and staple it to Janela's forehead. Another wrestler getting out of headlock by using baby oil. Another wrestler who literally has no legs and then another wrestler named Orange Cassidy who does all of this dopey comedy stuff like wrestling while his hands are in his pockets.

I think it makes it very difficult to impossible to develop superstars with genuine crossover appeal when you're doing freak show/bush league shit like that.

I think the main disconnect is somebody like Cornette, who eschews this stuff, will say that pro wrestling needs to be taken seriously as a sport. I don't think that is the best way to phrase it as pro wrestling is not a sport and when promotions have tried to treat it too seriously to the point of it being a sport, it creates backlash since it's a work.

While it may be semantics, wrestlers and promotions like AEW need to take it seriously to create a drama. That's what westernized pro wrestling is...a drama. And people can get into something that is a work if it's being portrayed as a drama.

Everybody knew Star Wars was fake, but they were passionate about it. And when they started doing silly stuff with Jar Jar Binks, the fans revolted. Just like the fans have revolted against the WWE. They do silly stuff and it takes the drama away from them.

Doing stuff like having goofs like Janela fighting invisible men or Joey Ryan tossing people with his dick just ruin the suspension of disbelief as they are clubbing you over the head to tell you 'THIS IS NOT REAL.'

It doesn't mean you cannot be comedic in wrestling. The Destroyer was great at it and so were a lot of the World of Sport wrestlers. But doing it at the expense of breaking the drama and now you're just another WWE ripoff that will never climb out of the minor leagues.










YR
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corrado



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Janela is actually one of the most popular indie wrestlers at the moment. Im looking forward to him and Moxley at Fyter Fest. He cut a great promo on Moxley in one of the road to Fyter Fest episodes.

Apparently Tony Khan wasn't a fan of Joey Ryan's dick gimmick which is partly why he's not going to be part of the AEW roster. Despite him being a regular on Being the Elite.

So Moxley's not working the New Japan G1 US show in dallas next month because it's going to be on AXS Tv. Or something like that. I guess there's still tension between the two feds. In one of the NJPW backstage videos, Jericho went on a rant about moxley without mentioning him attacking Jericho at Double or Nothing. Just some comedy about him destroying his jacket in the WWE. You can mention the WWE but not the AEW promotion. I guess NJPW is still content with ROH despite ROH's status as of late.

Incidentally the most viewed video in the history of NJPW's English Channel is Moxley and one of the young Lions, Shota Umino, who's going to be his tag partner next month. Over 3 million views, which is more than a lot of the recent wwe etc videos. Just shows that he is the biggest online draw in wrestling at the moment.
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Steve Yohe



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've talked to a few inde promoters & they know the fans hate Battle Royals...but it's a spot to put the lower grade talent from their wrestling schools. That's want I'm always told anyway.--Yohe
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corrado



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 4779
Location: LI

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's more on why you shouldn't expect to see AEW and NJPW work together:

https://411mania.com/wrestling/njpw-reportedly-not-trying-to-build-a-relationship-with-aew/
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 718

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched Fyter's Fight last night. I was going to attend the show since the Ocean Center is about 45 minutes away from my house, but I caught a virus and decided to not attend.

The Buy-In was a fucking embarrassment. They did some goofy vignettes that I didn't understand and I hate anyway because wrestlers are rarely good actors and the vignettes rarely make sense. This is probably going to be the biggest disconnect for me with AEW...I really don't understand the Being the Elite episodes on YouTube.

Now, I understand they are wildly popular. And at least the Being the Elite vignettes on YouTube make sense. But, my guess is that when they get on TNT there's going to be more of the vignettes and now they won't make sense to have them. And if they really want to separate themselves from the WWE, they really need to limit the vignettes they do. The vignettes that Dusty booked for Crockett, Hart booked for World Class and Heyman booked for ECW were usually few and far between and it made sense as to why there was a camera filming. And they were pre-taped so they could get a good final cut. You can't get that with vignettes done all of the time on a weekly basis.

No Alex Marvez announcing this time. Although the Buy-In announce team was not very good except for Excalibur. The main problem is that they had a 3-man announce team and if decades long of history in pro wrestling doesn't tell you (hell, it's the same in football, baseball and basketball)...3 man announce teams leave a lot to be desired. And one of the announcers with the English accent was doing the heel gimmick. I'll give him credit, Daytona Beach is a quasi-shit hole. But the heel announcer gimmick is too difficult to pull off these days. It either comes up lame or works if it is genuinely humorous, but being humorous comes at the expense of the product.

The 3-way tag match was good. Only problem was the announcers didn't explain the rules so it took me a while to get the hang of it. I usually don't like Chuck Taylor because he does too much comedy and he really doesn't have a presence, but he was at least dead serious here and this was a spotfest with mostly plausible (by wrestling standards) spots and some suspenseful near finishes.

Then they had a female match where one of them came out with a Librarian gimmick. She also had a male manager named Peter Avalon as a librarian as well. They were cutting a promo doing the shhh gimmick. I would say this was Vince Russo level booking, but this was actually more Bruce Prichard/Pat Patterson/Vince McMahon circa 1990-1995 booking. It's too bad because the Librarian girl has average athleticism, but can sell really well but is mired in such an awful gimmick that no amount of selling will do. Hey, Ricky Morton sold as well as anybody and when he was mired in an awful gimmick it turned one of the biggest drawing wrestlers of his time into a dud.

It got even more embarrassing with the Michael Nakazawa vs. Alex Jebailey. The announcers never explained who Jebailey was and even though I live in Orlando...I had no clue who Jebailey was since I'm not a gamer. Jebailey should never be in the ring, should never throw a forearm and should never be in the ring when you are throwing forearms in a hardcore match. Makes zero sense.

Then they did a bunch of goofy spots with the Nakazawa using baby oil to slip out of a waist lock, Jebailey 'drowning' Nakazawa in a kiddie pool and Jebailey selling getting hit over the head with an inflatable flamingo from Nakazawa. Basically they went from Prichard/Patterson/McMahon shitty booking to Russo/Ferrara shitty booking.

Even though Fyter's Fest is free in the US, you had to pay for it overseas. I would imagine most that watched the buy-in overseas were going to pay for it anyway. But I can't imagine the Buy-In drawing in new fans and probably turning off many prospective fans for the foreseeable future.

This doesn't seem to be the case of some wrestlers getting a money mark and then hiring their friends, pushing themselves and putting a dog shit effort and taking the mark for all they are worth because the effort is actually there. But, it still seems to be a case of getting a money mark, hiring your friends and putting them in positions they don't belong in and in the end, taking the mark for what they are worth.


Fortunately, the main card was a complete turnaround. Chris Daniels vs. CIMA was your typical, quality lucharesu style match. Start off fast, slow down the middle, end in a fury. It's good to see Daniels really come into his own as far as mixing his wrestling style with a persona that he feels comfortable with. And I haven't seen CIMA wrestle in 15 years and he still looks in great shape.


3-way woman's match was marred by some sloppiness from the Japanese gals. My guess is that the Joshi gals weren't used to the dimensions of the American style ring. Sakazaki was over, but I couldn't figure out why as she was clearly the worst worker of the bunch. Nyla Rose has a Vader type quality about her and they got her over in that way in some spots, but she left her feet way too often and got pinned. The announcers saved it by making it seem like Rose's attitude and lack of sense of urgency is costing a talented young wrestler, but at this point she's looking more like Abyss than Vader. Overall the match was acceptable because the sloppiness happened early on and then there were incredible spots in the middle and end of the match.


They had a 4-way with MJF/Hangman Page/Havoc/Jungle Boy. MJF is really great as a heel. The problem he will have to overcome to sustain his heel ability is fans starting to cheer him because they like to be a contrarian. I think he needs to address that ASAP to get those fans off his bandwagon and create a real feud with Page. Jungle Boy is Luke Perry's (yes, that Luke Perry) son. Havoc is a CZW garbage wrestler but actually has some real wrestling ability.

This was very good although a little more contrived than some of the other spot fests. And a problem I had with this match is that Jungle Boy (who could use a different name) has a lot of potential, but could get some more momentum in a preliminary singles match victory over a veteran wrestler. Here he kinda gets over, but gets lost in the shuffle. Havoc needs to be an undercard guy. MJF is fantastic and Page is great, too. I probably would have had Jungle Boy go over Havoc in a singles match and put Page and MJF with 2 other wrestlers in a 4-way.


Cody vs. Darby Allin was the match of the night. I had only seen Allin on Vice's The Wrestlers docu-series and he was doing garbage matches for Gabe Sapolsky and I wasn't impressed with a guy killing himself in stunts in front of 300 people. But here they wrestled and Allin actually showed some real wrestling skill, told a story and had a fantastic match. It was Allin's speed and quickness vs. Cody's wrestling background, size and strength. Cody controlled the match, but Allin was able to injure the hand and fingers of Rhodes and stage a comeback based off that.

Unfortunately, I don't see Allin sticking around for long. He takes Mick Foley type bumps, but in a 150 pound frame. He took flat back bumps on the steel steps, one where he was whipped into the corner went thru the middle ropes and flatbacked to the outside and then he did a flying reverse elbow drop to the outter canvas that I couldn't believe did not split him in two.

I thought they screwed up by making it a draw. Could have done fine with a great finish of Cody pinning him on the very last second of the time limit.

Then Shawn Spears came out after the match and drilled Cody in the head, unprotected, with a chairshot. Cody bled from the back of his head.

After the show, the Young Bucks alluded to the chair being gimmicked, but did say that Cody required stitches. I don't know what to make of it because I don't see how that chair could have been gimmicked, particularly if he required stitches.


The 6 man tag of the Lucha Bros/Laredo Kid vs. Omega/Young Bucks was fine. It was another non-singles match where they do a ton of spots. Omega and the Young Bucks paid tribute to the game Street Fighter. I was always a Mortal Kombat guy, anyway.

Out of the group, the Laredo Kid arguably looked the best while the Young Bucks looked the worst. This probably had the most contrived spots of the night, but also had some of the best and innovative spots as well. Omega and Young Bucks went over, but they need to start getting the Lucha Bros. over soon or fans will lose interest.


Then they had a 'non-sanctioned' match for AEW between Moxley and Joey Janela. The whole thing was stupid because you're televising...err, streaming...a match with AEW announcers in an AEW ring with an AEW referee. I mean...who's kidding who?

But the match should have never been booked to begin with. Garbage matches work when you have inferior standard pro wrestling style talent and there's a fued that has been boiled up to a point that both wrestlers want to hurt each other so bad that they book a 'hardcore match' against each other. Not when your standard in-ring product is far more entertaining than your garage wrestling product and you have two wrestlers than have no background against each other.

And it's infinitely more stupid when one of the wrestlers is the hottest wrestler in the business that people are dying to see and he's wrestling against a jamoke, indie guy that has no presence and only a small niche of wrestling fans know who he is.

And that wrestler looks even more bush league when standing next to Moxley who is taller and has a far better physique.

My guess is that Moxley wanted to book this as he and Janela are both CZW guys. If Janela was a true pro and a friend he would have advised Moxley to work with somebody else, but because he doesn't know any better he jumps at the opportunity.

The only good thing about this is that Moxley won in fairly convincing manner and then Omega came out and attacked him to get retribution for DoN. But it makes me worry that a guy like Moxley, who could be a crossover star (as well as Omega), could be too caught up in an indy type mentality.


Overall, I enjoyed the show, particularly the Allin vs. Rhodes match. I would rather not see a chair shot like that again just because I don't want to see wrestlers die for what they perceive I think is entertainment. But, I've long felt that you could probably do 1 chair shot to the head in a blue moon and work it as a hot angle. Although 1 chair shot could be enough to cause serious concussion issues and according to many experts, CTE.

Obviously, the Buy-In was dreadful and the Janela vs. Moxley match was a bad mistake and makes me question their booking.

But a big concern for me is also the booking of non-singles matches. Having watched puroresu (although I'm more of an All-Japan/NOAH fan) I've long felt that having more non-singles matches was a direction that a US promotion should take because they are easier to work they are more exciting and it does a good job of losing wrestlers keeping their heat. For example, MJF can always say that he didn't get pinned despite losing or Nyla Rose could say that she was basically attacked by 2 wrestlers for her to be pinned.

However, they need to be careful with this format of booking because it can almost turn into a stalemate where wrestlers don't quite gain any momentum either and that's what getting super over in wrestling is about...getting a momentum and riding it out.

In the end, I will probably be stupid enough to watch 1 more of the Buy-Ins if I have the time to do so. Probably more out of curiousity to see if AEW learned their lesson. The Buy Ins should be more for wrestlers like Private Party, Jungle Boy, Guevera, Pillman Jr., etc. to showcase young wrestlers that can make the main card in the near future but don't quite have the seasoning to do so just yet.






YR
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