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Destroyer recommendations...
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jdw
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:32 pm    Post subject: Destroyer recommendations... Reply with quote

This is in part from a conversation with Yohe the other day, and also from a post elsewhere that reminded me that most people are probably seeing the edited version of Rikidozan vs. Destroyer rather than the full version.

So:

#1 - what all is available on Dick

#2 - once we have that, what of it would be best for a Destroyer Comp


John
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goodhelmet



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm game. between Dan, Lynch and Frank, I know we can have Japan covered. I would really be interested if any American footage is available.
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goodhelmet



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matches from Frankís Digests:
Giant Baba vs Destroyer - 03/05/1969 (59:14)
Antonio Inoki vs Destroyer - 05/19/1971 (29:31)
Giant Baba vs Destroyer - 12/19/1972 (48:39)
Destroyer vs. Mil Mascaras - 10/09/73 (35:06)
Destroyer vs. Mil Mascaras - 07/25/74 (42:46)
Baba & Destroyer vs. Kox & Slater - 08/29/74
Destroyer vs. Spirit - 07/25/75 (30:04)
Destroyer vs. Stan Hansen - 10/30/75 (14:08)
Destroyer vs Horst Hoffman - 12/17/1975 (15:25)
Destroyer vs. Super Destroyer - 08/28/76


Other matches I know exist:
12/2/63- Rikidozan -vs- The Destroyer
2/26/65- Toyonobori -vs- The Destroyer
12/13/1975 Destroyer vs Don Leo Jonathan
12/15/75 Destroyer vs. Hiro Matsuda
01/05/1979 Brody/Curtis vs Baba/Destroyer
Destroyer vs. Mascaras (1977 or 78?)
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Steve Yohe



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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Location: Wonderful Montebello CA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject: Yohe's list Reply with quote

2-20-58 Dick Beyer vs Bob Brown from Buffalo
6-19-58 Dick Beyer & Bob Brown vs Doc & Mike Gallagher
5-10-63 Clip of The Destroyer vs Fred Blassie (very short clip from Glen Brayís home movies)
5-17-63-Clip of The Destroyer in ring before the Rikidozan/Kowalski match
6-14-63-Clip of The Destroyer vs Fred Blassie
12-2-63 The Destroyer vs Rikidozan for Int Title
7-22-64 Clip of The Destroyer vs The Brusier
2-26-65 The Destroyer vs Toyonobori for WWA WC (60 mins)
1965 Clip of Destroyer & Kurt Von Stroheim & Bill Dromo vs Baba & Toyonobori &
Yoshima (very short clip but itís prime Destroyer)
8-31-68 Dr X vs Verne Gagne (5 min hilight)
3-5-69 The Destroyer vs Shohei Baba 2/3 falls
5-19-71 The Destroyer vs Antonio Inoki
10-7-72 & Andre The Giant vs Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens (8 mins of 8 mm film)
12-19-72 The Destroyer vs Shohei Baba for PWF Title
10-9-73 The Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras for US Title
4-17-74 The Destroyer vs Abdullah The Butcher
6-13-74 The Destroyer & Jumbo Tsuruta vs Kevin Sullivan & Johnny Rodz
7-25-74 The Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras for US Title
8-29-74 The Destroyer & Shohei Baba vs Killer Karl Kox & Dick Slater
4-10-75 The Destroyer & Samson Kutsuwada vs Killer Kowalski & Mr Wrestling (Tim Woods)
7-25-75 The Destroyer vs The Spirit (Killer Karl Kox)
10-12-75 The Destroyer vs Abdullah The Butcher (Dick loses US Title)
10-30-75 The Destroyer vs Stan Hansen
12-9-75 The Destroyer vs The Great Kusatsu
12-13-75 The Destroyer vs Don Leo Jonathan
12-15-75 The Destroyer vs Hiro Matsuda (30 mins)
12-17-75 The Destroyer vs Horst Hoffman
8-26-76 The Destroyer vs The Super Destroyer (The Spoiler)
10-28-76 The Destroyer vs Abdullah The Butcher
3-11-77 The Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras (US Title)
8-30-77 The Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras (bad)
1-5-79 The Destroyer & Shohei Baba vs Bruiser Brody & King Curtis
6-14-79 The Destroyer vs Shohei Baba
5-23-80 The Destroyer vs Abdullah The Butcher (Iíve seen a copy of this but I donít have it)
6-29-80 The Destroyer vs Joe Marcus from Toronto
4-81 The Destroyer vs Gino Brito (this is an important match from I think Detroit that a person was very nice to give me & I canít find it. Very disappointing move by Yohe.)
1-2-82 AJW Battle Royal
9-14-82 The Destroyer & Jerry Blackwell & Ron Bass vs Jumbo Tsuruta & Terry Funk & Tenryu
5-20-83 The Destroyer & Bill Irwin vs Shohei Baba & Tenryu
6-1-84 The Destroyer & Billy Robinson vs Shohei Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta
6-20-85 The Destroyer & Steve Regal vs Kawada ??? & Fumihiro Niikuro
7-28-85 The Destroyer & Jerry Blackwell vs Shohei Baba & Ishikawa
7-11-91 The Destroyer & Momoto vs Joe & Dean Malenko (2 min clip)
7-28-93 The Destroyer & Kurt Beyer vs Shohei Baba & Momoto
7-29-93 The Destroyer & Shohei Baba & Kurt Beyer vs Masa Fuji & Inoue & Elgen (retirement match)

There's also a lot of tape of him ringside for AJW matches. Like for Baba/Brisco.--Yohe
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jdw
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This also aired on Classics:

All Japan Classics #25 (VG/EX, 2hrs)
* Destroyer vs. Don Kernodle (8/24/78)

Here are some we might be able to put Dan on the hunt for:

Quote:
List A-1

3
Ohito rice field VS DEYUSEKKU
Terry & Tsuruta & Tenryu VS destroyer & Blackwell & bus
Baba VS Hansen
Kevin Von Eric VS HARIREISU
FURITTSUFON Eric VS bandy


That's 09/14/82 in Kariya. It's Terry Funk & Jumbo & Tenryu vs. Destroyer & Jerry Blackwell & Ron Bass. Steve appears to have this, but I don't know the condition.

Quote:
List A-1

5
TAIGA mask VS Chris Adams -
Hogan & Fujinami VS superstar & Slaughter
Inoki & Yatsu VS Kimura & Hamaguchi -
Tenryu VS destroyer -
Tsuruta VS ROMBASU
Baba & Terry VS Hansen & Blackwell


That's 09/08/82 in Yamagata from the same tour. Tenryu and Destroyer for to a draw according to Yohe.

Quote:
List A-1

7
Inoki & Fujinami VS Kimura & Hamaguchi -
Sakaguchi & Yatsu VS Kimura & Hamaguchi -
TAIGA mask VS Pete Roberts
Inoki & Fujinami & Hogan VS superstar & Adams & Slaughter -
Tenryu & Ohito rice field VS destroyer & ultra seven -
Terry VS Blackwell -
Baba & Tsuruta VS Hansen & bus


Same tour. 09/02/82 in Utsunomiya. Tenryu & Onita vs. Destroyer & Ultra 7. Onita was feuding with Ultra at the time, and the match likely sets up the Destroyer vs. Tenryu match later in the series.

Probably not a lot airs. Terry vs. Blackwell looks to be on the same show, and the last match is a Baba & Jumbo vs. Hansen & Bass title match that never aired on Classics. Goes 12+.

Quote:
List A-2

49
Sugar & destroyer VS field & Tenryu
Tsuruta VS KAMATA
Sakaguchi & door VS GURAHAMU & MAKUDANIERU
Tiger VS ERUHARUKON
Inoki & Fujinami & Nagato VS BUTCHA & Allen & Jones


01/03/82 in Tokyo. Destroyer & Skip Young/Sweet Brown Sugar vs. Tenryu & Hara. The Jumbo vs. Kamata is a title match that goes about 15 over three falls.

Quote:
List A-2

53
Ohito rice field VS ultra seven
Baba & Tsuruta VS destroyer & bus
Hansen VS Terry
Andre VS MAGURO


That zooms forward to 9/10/82 in Tokyo. Destroyer & Bass vs. Baba & Jumbo.

I haven't seen the 09/14/82 so I can't pass judgement on what Dick had left at the time. He was 50. I know that Steve would love to see all that stuff simply as a Destroyer Fan. There might be some of it that's worthwhile to keep on the set. The match with Tenryu and the matches on this tour look to be his last "pushed" run in All Japan, so it might just be worth documenting.


John
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jdw
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me one of the gold items if it could be found is:

06/12/79 Morioka Iwate Prefectural Gym
NWA Int'l Tag Title: Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. The Destroyer & Billy Red Lyons
(a) Destroyer beats Baba 17:42
(b) Baba beats Destroyer 7:32
(c) Jumbo beats Lyons 4:53

Steve has it taking place a day earlier in the same city, but I double checked the title history listing in a book we both have that 6/12 is the date given. This is Dick's last title match in Japan, just two match before he and Baba have their final singles match to end Dick's tenure of working fulltime over there. What's really cool about that tour is that Dick worked with the gaijin (Lyons and Billy Robinson) the whole series opposite the natives - mostly Baba and Jumbo. He had one gaijin vs. gaijin match.

It was the traditionally short May-June series. Opening night had a one hour Jumbo vs. Billy match for the UN Title, so that would have eaten up and most or all of a show. Dick & Lyons vs. Baba & Ishikawa was that night, probably the semifinal... maybe a bit on TV.

The only other title match of note (PWF, UN or Int'l Tag) was the tag title match with the Destroyer in it. Those are usually good guides for when TV was shot, do no help there.

We know that 06/10/81 was a TV taping because Kevin & David Von Erich vs. Jumbo & Tenryu was from it. That *doesn't* have a Destroyer match likely to be taped - Dick & Lyons vs. Great Kojika & Motoshi Okuma, the current All Asia champs in a non-title match. On the other hand, they won that one with their next match being the Int'l Tag Title match... so maybe it did get shot.

I don't know if Dan is able to figure out from the mags what the TV tapings were for that series (05/25/79 - 06/14/79).


John
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DGinnetty



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:25 am    Post subject: what I know Reply with quote

The deluxe puroresu mags often had taping dates for shows. AJ, NJ, IWE, and AJW would take out a full page ad for their tours, and the TV taping dates are comonly bolded.

I will see what I can do.

The Weekly Pro mag started with TV listings from July 83, Weekly Gong in May 84. Those listing smade it easy to track down the taping date. Before that, we have to rely on the bolded dates in ads

Dan Ginnetty
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jdw
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Yohe's list Reply with quote

Okay, Steve and others...

Which of the matches above would be "keepers" for a Destroyer set?


John
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jdw
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of my thoughts:



[quote]
Quote:
5-10-63 Clip of The Destroyer vs Fred Blassie (very short clip from Glen Brayís home movies)
5-17-63 Clip of The Destroyer in ring before the Rikidozan/Kowalski match
6-14-63 Clip of The Destroyer vs Fred Blassie


Sort of historic and don't take up much space if edits.


Quote:
12-2-63 The Destroyer vs Rikidozan for Int Title


One needs to make sure to get the full version from Lynch that aired in the early 90s. The newer version out is clipped up. Yes, the newer version is in much better VQ, but they really clip the match up badly. I think Lynch's version would probably be fine.


Quote:
2-26-65 The Destroyer vs Toyonobori for WWA WC (60 mins)


I'm not a big fan of this, but it is a major match and a number of other people like this. So I guess it has to go.

Destroyer-Rikidozan and Destroyer-Toyonobori would be the cornerstones of the first group of matches. I think with the pre-match and post matches, the Destroyer-Riki will come in around 30 minutes or so. The Toyonobori match is 60.


Quote:
8-31-68 Dr X vs Verne Gagne (5 min hilight)


Sort of needs to be on there if it's in decent shape.


Quote:
3-5-69 The Destroyer vs Shohei Baba 2/3 falls
5-19-71 The Destroyer vs Antonio Inoki


Both keepers and pretty much the anchors for the second group of matches.

Quote:
12-19-72 The Destroyer vs Shohei Baba for PWF Title


Historic since it keeps Dick in Japan for the next few years.

Quote:
10-9-73 The Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras for US Title
7-25-74 The Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras for US Title
3-11-77 The Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras (US Title)
8-30-77 The Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras (bad)


I think the second one is quite a bit better in their working together. If one is trying to do keep this tight similar to the Backlund set, I'd take the second match.

The third one is the sprint if I recall? It might be an interesting contrast. But really it's the second match that's the gem.


Quote:
4-17-74 The Destroyer vs Abdullah The Butcher
10-12-75 The Destroyer vs Abdullah The Butcher (Dick loses US Title)
10-28-76 The Destroyer vs Abdullah The Butcher
5-23-80 The Destroyer vs Abdullah The Butcher


I don't know which of these is the "best" example of their long feud. One of them should make it.

Quote:
6-13-74 The Destroyer & Jumbo Tsuruta vs Kevin Sullivan & Johnny Rodz
8-29-74 The Destroyer & Shohei Baba vs Killer Karl Kox & Dick Slater
4-10-75 The Destroyer & Samson Kutsuwada vs Killer Kowalski & Mr Wrestling (Tim Woods)
1-5-79 The Destroyer & Shohei Baba vs Bruiser Brody & King Curtis


I would skip the last one.

The Baba & Destroyer vs. Kox & Slater probably should be on as an example of Dick and Baba teaming during that era.

The last one is more about getting Brody over. I'd skip it.


Quote:
7-25-75 The Destroyer vs The Spirit (Killer Karl Kox)
8-26-76 The Destroyer vs The Super Destroyer (The Spoiler)


Dick vs. Heel Masked Men. The Spoiler one is a bit more noted since Dick won the mask there. But I don't recall it being very good.

Quote:
10-30-75 The Destroyer vs Stan Hansen
12-9-75 The Destroyer vs The Great Kusatsu
12-13-75 The Destroyer vs Don Leo Jonathan
12-15-75 The Destroyer vs Hiro Matsuda (30 mins)
12-17-75 The Destroyer vs Horst Hoffman


I don't remember the Kusatsu match too well.

Dick vs. Hansen has to make it. I'd keep Dick vs. Don Leo as well, since Dick gets something watchable out of Don Leo. Most people seem to like the Matsuda match more than I do - Hiro's performance drives me nuts. The Hoffman match is a keep: better than Jumbo-Hoffman, not as good as Dory-Hoffman.


Quote:
6-14-79 The Destroyer vs Shohei Baba


Dick winning on the way out. I wish that the tag title match from a few nights earlier was available. I have to think it was taped.

This is sort of historic as well, but someone else's judgement on whether it's any good.

Obviously the last match of his career needs to make it. I'm not familar with his stuff in the 80s.


John
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khawk20



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Verne-X match aired on the Verne Special on 24/7 so it is available in great quality.
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wagnerpanther



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to be a completist, there are two min clips from Dos Caras & Mil Mascaras vs. The Destroyer & The Cruiser. I got it thinking it was a full match or at least extended clips. Nothing you can't live without.

Also there's Destroyer vs. Tony Ricco from some territorial indy (squash).

I have the 8-30-77 The Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras, which is very rare to find. I don't think it's a bad match, but I can imagine why Steve didn't like it. Also, I prefer the first Destroyer vs. Mascaras meeting. The figure four leglock delivering and selling are brutal.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be all for having both the 1973 and 1974 match on there. They're both worth seeing. I doubt there's much issue as far as space in this time frame since they're not rubbing up against an hour draw.


John
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jdw
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW Jose - one of these projects (down the road) should be booking a strong Mascaras set similar to Backlund. Mil has a pretty shitty rep in a lot of circles. When you see a bit more of him, he's a lot better at times than he's ever been given credit for. He could really bring the matwork and holds.


John
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wagnerpanther



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with what you said. It has been on my "to do" list for years, but before doing so, I am hopeful of finding more of his Mexican footage pre 90s, and a couple other key matches I know are on tape somewhere. I'd also need to buy a couple of things that I found Friedlander has and I have never seen before. But as far as footage, I don't think there's anybody on the internet with more Mascaras footage than me. I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing, though.

I find it funny that some old guys like Dick Steinborn, who were likely jealous of his success and definitely rubbed the wrong way by his attitude, claimed he was a guy who would only do high flying moves and nothing more. If anything, he doesn't do as much high flying as you expect, and mostly does matwork.

But Mil definitely has a shitty rep among people who have never seen anything from him before 1990 and assume things.
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Kevin Tyler



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wagnerpanther wrote:
But Mil definitely has a shitty rep among people who have never seen anything from him before 1990 and assume things.


Foley's book didn't help either. There is a whole generation of fans who think Mil sucks because Foley said so in his first book. And Foley is god, of course.

But isn't there some sort of saying about never trusting one wrestler's opinion of another?
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